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Video Games Are the Future of Education

nabeelqu.co

271–280 of 392 posts

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#271
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. I received a small ($150k) NSF grant back in 2010 and made a semi-popular science education app/game for iPad. It was featured by Apple a few times and was even in an iPad commercial - it made basically no money.

Can you share the name and does it still exist?

Powers of Minus Ten, and yes it still exists - I do a little bit of maintenance to keep it alive because it's used by a bunch of schools. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/powers-of-minus-ten/id42912355...

I'm actually still working on something similar but, basically, no longer trying to run a business selling educational games (more, profits from commercial development contracts with actual budgets funding the cooler projects).

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#272
post #37

A collaborative games of science-based games: https://github.com/stared/science-based-games-list And a question for you: while I do share that games are the way to learn things (our instinct for playing, shared with other animals, is precisely so we can learn), do you know any good investors in that sector? My experience is that three words to turn-off an investor is "a game", "educational" and "for the public good".…

Neat idea! When I played through your Quantum Game levels, the confetti in Level 3 kept raining while I was playing the next level. Thought you might want to know (and fix) that.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask, what is the subject? Is it reading? History? Geography? Interdisipinary across some of those? (Not trying to be adversarial, just interested.)

I'm happy to offer any details. The goal was interdisciplinary because that's how teachers have to teach these days. They don't have enough time to teach each subject separately so they mix things together. But it would be relatively straight-forward (not easy) to build weekly story-based content that contained geography, history, science, politics, and more. Textfyre was going to align our stories to Common Core Sta…

Skimming the deck, one concern I'd have is understanding the effort required to gather domain knowledge.

One reservation I've had about Khan Academy, is a "gather college textbooks and distill them" story doesn't work well when textbooks so poorly describe domains. When MIT did a VR intro to cell biology, they reached out to people with direct research expertise. And found them very intrinsically motivated to contribute. But it's still no small effort.

Creating excellent stories, especially interdisciplinary ones, requires far more intensive domain expertise than is usually appreciated. And seems more at the scale of (neglected) societal infrastructure, than something that can be MVPed in passing.

But perhaps excellence in stories is more than is needed. At least to develop and prove the delivery mechanism. But coming from science ed, I think of misconceptions as toxins that can severely diminish outcomes.

So as I read the Boston Harbor story slide, I thought... The big heavy canvas fluttered away?!? Is there a hurricane? Was anyone killed? Did they launch a boat to recover it? Why was the label sun-weathered if it was under a canvas? Did they really use printed labels on sea cargo? I'd have naively thought branding the wood more likely. And so on.

An issue with science education graphics, is they often mix aspects done with great care for correctness, with aspects that are artistic license with little connection to reality. And students lack the background to identify which aspects are which. Creating rich ecosystems of misconceptions that compromise understanding.

But students' understanding of history is and will remain so poor, that perhaps there's little there to damage. Content might be pure upside, regardless of shortcuts taken to keep creation costs plausible. At least until we do better.

Re Gates Foundation... perhaps a useful model is that they think of patents and established companies as keys to impact at scale... and thus do things which can seem less than ethical if one doesn't share that perspective.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#274
post #143
post #59

I own a educational game company. Long story short: it doesn't sell. At my company we identified, at least if your target is kids, two ways to sell edu games. 1. Sell them to institutions, like governments, schools, companies, whatever. Thing is, the features they look when choosing a game to buy, are ones most likely to make the game unfun, the end result is often boring stuff noone WANTS to play. 2. Sell them to th…

We also tried to make educational games and came to a similar conclusion. The truth is, kids (or adults) don't want to play "educational" games. They just want to play fun games. And, let's be honest, games that try to teach you math or science are just not as fun as Fortnite or Minecraft. Now, you can make the case that some games are educational by mistake. Like Minecraft, Age of Empires, Sim City or Kerbal Space P…

I learned a ton of SAT words just by playing Diablo 2 over and over again searching for magical and unique items. Kind of incredible.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so many things to comment on here. Firstly, there are a lot of other countries than America. Secondly, re grade progression system, the issue is not what broken system you have now, we should strive to improve the education of our children. There are clearly a million was that software can make assessment better. Software will eventually be able to read an essay and provide feedback on how well the argument was m…

Yes to everything about the US system having some serious problems and being fairly unique relative to the rest of the world. > Software will eventually be able to read an essay and provide feedback on how well the argument was made, as well as the nuts and bolts of how sentences are put together... Imagine for example the task is to convince an AI to buy you a pony. You have to write a persuasive essay as to why you…

In addition to human graders, and purely automated graders, there's also the option of hybrid human-machine systems.

Some aspects of the grading might be offloaded from humans, as the range of tasks and cases is often diverse. Or multiple less skilled humans substituted for more expensive ones.

In math for instance, there's no need for a human to see a blank answer, or a clearly correct one.

A system can assess graders as well as students. Might suggest to a professor which subset of gradings by graduate students could use a quality check. Using non-AI-complete statistics like "when this person grades late at night, and takes a long time on an answer, but doesn't write much, and the student is someone flagged as being at risk, then the odds increase that the professor will want to have seen it". Or perhaps particular cases are best handled by a particular grader. Or should always get an independent cross check of two graders, to reduce grading variance and bias.

That a hybrid system might hypothetically support good grading, does not imply that that's the direction which often-unfortunate incentives will drive the tech. Years ago I saw a paper, about the post-WWII defense industry investment in CNC tech. One argument was there were other options, like recording and playing back a skilled machinist, which might have been widely deployed decades earlier. But getting rid of the dependency on skilled workmen was a management objective. Creating cheap automated grading may be far more incentivized that attempting harder and less cheap good grading.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#276
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern education is such an abject failure that those “experts” you mention should be begging people from other fields for new perspectives.

Based on what criteria? Which countries? When was it better and by how much? Also worth mentioning that everyone is the best armchair quarterback in the world. If you've got new perspectives that are so effective, start your own school and show the experts how wrong they are. Get rich by offering such a better product. It should be child's play to do measurably better than an abject failure.

> start your own school and show the experts how wrong they are

Let parents have vouchers to attend my school and I will.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes to everything about the US system having some serious problems and being fairly unique relative to the rest of the world. > Software will eventually be able to read an essay and provide feedback on how well the argument was made, as well as the nuts and bolts of how sentences are put together... Imagine for example the task is to convince an AI to buy you a pony. You have to write a persuasive essay as to why you…

In addition to human graders, and purely automated graders, there's also the option of hybrid human-machine systems. Some aspects of the grading might be offloaded from humans, as the range of tasks and cases is often diverse. Or multiple less skilled humans substituted for more expensive ones. In math for instance, there's no need for a human to see a blank answer, or a clearly correct one. A system can assess grade…

This industrial model of human capital production consistently fails. It’s literally the root of everything that is broken about the us k12 education system.

“Taylorism for education but with ‘The AI’” will end the same as the factory model for k12 that gave rise to the pathologies that critics like pg are so quick to point out. ‘The AI’ is just the 2020 version of the control theory metaphors that resulted in disasters in the mid 20th century. Ironic.

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