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How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

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Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#271
post #4

> Don't just build Something™, build an industry leading product that customers want and love! The point of writing software is to get paid. If the process leads to something actually useful, good on you. If not, you still got paid. It was just a drill, life continues.

I agree with you, but I would add that on most software projects it's possible to find a way to derive satisfaction from the work.

Solving problems and writing elegant code is good, whether it's running the next Amazon or streaming intrusive ads to a Smart Toothbrush or whatever. (I'd draw a line at weapons systems, gambling, automated extortion etc - but YMMV.)

Economic value rarely correlates to more 'human' measures of value - which is depressing but nevertheless useful to me as someone whose skills are societally useless but moderately lucrative. I suspect many of us here are in the same boat.

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#272
post #261

A small team in a company I worked for got into machine learning a few years back. They had some success with some toy examples and were now looking for applications. They tried to use it for optimizing some specific engineering procesess. Two people (one was me) were warning them that this is a waste of time and will cost the company a fortune and then no one will want it because the quality will be so much poorer.…

[deleted]

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#273
My manager (a director) at a FAANG used to give me (and only me, justified with my strong background - though he used similar tactics on others) tasks that couldn't be solved and didn't have any business justification so he could keep me from getting promoted. The first few promotion cycles I still tried to find alternatives (X doesn't make sense, but Y would reach similar goals in a reasonable way), but the motives were quite clear.

At first I was looking for ways to move within the company (I was hired in the wrong part of the organization and on the wrong level, making this a bit difficult) and started working with other teams to be able to switch, but I realized it wasn't really worth it because most teams were building things that were very strongly driven by VPs and directors own motives rather than users or even what is good for the business. [1]

My impression was that this is partially driven by several factors: - the very strong market position means customers don't really have a choice. It's actually rather hard to make good decisions when the market can't give you good signals. Situations would arise where one customer wants something, another wants the opposite and both may have a negative short-term impact on the bottom line. The lack of competition to really verify which decision would be successful gives too much power to the decision maker with really bad incentives, leading to some suboptimal decisions (unless there's a strong long-term strategy that is followed through). - the drive to make "data driven" decisions, without understanding what that really means. Depending on how the data was presented, completely different conclusions were possible and instead of using common sense with the data, this was treated as an absolute truth to end many discussions. What quite frequently would happen was optimizing towards the wrong metric or underestimating bias. - Silos created by people who were hired at a different stage of the company. Some of the managers just hadn't grown with the company - people who were around for 10+ years were hired for much smaller revenue und user numbers and this further increased the problems with the two points above. My impression was that the incentives weren't well aligned with overall goals of the specific product.

I think the solution in the article above would be a good way to avoid some of the problems I've encountered, by creating a more direct feedback loop between the product and the sales side and aligning incentives better. I don't think it's the best way how many companies grow with very diverse sets of offerings to have huge sales and engineerings orgs, rather than smaller groups that cover the product end-to-end. It's still possible to have many of the benefits of being a large enterprise (shared talent pool, operational processes, costs etc.), while avoiding the drawbacks.

[1]: I can't share evidence, but this particular company is well known for discontinuing popular services.

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#274

Obviously using a throwaway here. Our board members got it into their heads that successful companies must have an AI "play", so they instructed the CEO to invest about 10% of our development budget on AI. We are doing absolutely inane projects that have no hope of succeeding. We serve a niche industry where certified professionals have to do certain tasks personally, instead of being able to delegate to secretaries.…

Many of us have been there. I think what struck me was how low the treshold really is for what's accepted as "AI" in most industries. Do this: 1. make something that has some "modern" AI such as deep learning in it, but that doesn't do anything much useful (because that's almost impossible in most cases). E.g. predict something trivial based on a time series, and repoort it. We all know how hard this is, so just take…

genuine question here: why is using deep learning to do something useful impossible?

I can think of a bunch of potential use cases for gpt 3 alone.

or do you mean its impossible to build useful models from scratch because all the "easy" problems are solved?

this also seems like a limited mind set.

context: I'm a ML noob

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of us have been there. I think what struck me was how low the treshold really is for what's accepted as "AI" in most industries. Do this: 1. make something that has some "modern" AI such as deep learning in it, but that doesn't do anything much useful (because that's almost impossible in most cases). E.g. predict something trivial based on a time series, and repoort it. We all know how hard this is, so just take…

It cracks me up that on the new LG TVs (I have a C9), it has “AI preview”. Which means: when I hover the Netflix icon in the dashboard it presents a list of the most recently played shows. I think the “Open Recent” menu debuted in 1980s? But now it is AI!

I thought AI in C9 tvs was about improving upscaling quality?

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#278
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might look good in the short term, but there are many companies and roles which require you to show the actual number of users, or the load of the service that you worked on. Also many technically challenging issues only come out under load, and actually working on challenging things are very different from reading about them. Just my 2 cents.

there are many companies and roles which require you to show the actual number of users, or the load of the service that you worked on. I got my first job as a programmer in 2001 and not once was I asked that. I'm sure they exist but I wouldn't count on that being so common as to significantly impact the OP's career prospects. Two things I've most often noticed people care about when hiring: 1. experience with the ex…

That last sentence sums up the sad state of hiring in the industry well.

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh boi does this hit hard as a engineer that recently got hired as a part of the AI/automation team on a startup, that few month in got told by the boss that "we need a AI team because we promised the investors. Investors are not interested in tech without AI baked in". Whelp.

Replace AI with ______. Some things never change!

my butt

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#280
post #261

A small team in a company I worked for got into machine learning a few years back. They had some success with some toy examples and were now looking for applications. They tried to use it for optimizing some specific engineering procesess. Two people (one was me) were warning them that this is a waste of time and will cost the company a fortune and then no one will want it because the quality will be so much poorer.…

So are you saying that the article is just written by "non-visonaries" who dont know what they are talking about? The old "If I had asked my customers for what they want, they would have said a faster horse"
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