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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#271

Post by ajhurliman »

jessaustin wrote: post #261
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a pretty big difference between Seattle and NYC in terms of size and population density. Like many orders of magnitude difference. But you're right that NYC didn't handle the outbreak very well.

MSA population: 19M/4M -> less than one order of magnitude City population: 8.3M/750k -> one order of magnitude City density: 28k/8400 -> less than one order of magnitude This is not what one imagines when one encounters the sentence fragment "Like many orders of magnitude difference." [EDIT:] Normally technical correctness is appreciated? If anyone here really thinks that New York has done a better job dealing with…

I figured by "one order of magnitude" you were trying to stress how different they were, but then I noticed you were the author of the post that was being refuted.

Beyond an order of magnitude in population, you have the cultural differences: Low usage of public transportation (compared to NYC), strict observation of social norms, comparatively high number of folks who can work from home, etc.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#272

Post by logicprog »

rtkwe wrote: post #255
logicprog wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said. It's about checked power - abolishing police totally would just end up with them recreated again when the need arises, but without the proper infrastructure to control them. What we really need is a system of accountability and control over police. Police should be as accountable for their actions and mistakes as every other citizen (equality under the law!), or at least that's the idea. We can start by: -…

> without the proper infrastructure to control them. Many, myself included, would argue that they're basically out of control right now. Just look at the sequence of events that unfolds almost to the letter after every unjustified police killing. At best the outcome is the cop involved resigns and quietly goes to work for another police department a few months down the line or retires with full benefits. Defund of co…

I agree with you wholeheartedly on both points. I even said in my OG comment: "What we really need is a system of accountability and control over police." I know the police aren't well-controlled right now, that's why I was laying out a few ways to improve it! (:

I would say, though, that our US police are more controlled than what's going on in the CHAZ, however slightly in some ways.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#273

Post by salawat »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #188
dragonwriter wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Degentrification could trivially be achieved by eminent domain, condemning existing residential property for public housing for which eligibility would be governed on rules which are incompatible with gentrification. It might be expensive, even prohibitively so, to do on a broad scale, but in terms of legal authority it's well within the scope of powers that local governments usually have. Note that rent control, eve…

IANAL but I’m pretty sure it’s illegal to use eminent domain to confiscate the homes of citizens based on their race. The law doesn’t make provisions for unpopular races as far as I know.

Further, any use of eminent domain must be bundled with fair market value compensation for the value of the property being acquired.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#274

Post by TimSchumann »

everly wrote: post #175
conroy wrote: post #84

A friend lives in Seattle and texted me today about his visit last night: > I was there last night and it's such a cool pseudo utopian place > The media coverage of it is WILD > People on the internet are convinced it's protected by armed guards and people are dying of hunger and instead its...like a music festival campground > There are speakers, musicians, art walls. I took a group pic for a bunch of black guys las…

Yep, I’ve been staying in Seattle with my girlfriend since quarantine began. We live about 9 blocks away up Madison and have been walking around the zone almost daily. Hard to believe how much fear-mongering, disinfo, and straight-up lying I see in every thread/post about the subject.

I'm up north about the same distance. Only bad days have been this Sun/Mon with all the gas/flash-bangs and the sheriff's plane flying loops over the city until the wee hours of the morning.

Since the police cleared out, everything has been much MUCH nicer around here.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#277

Post by MockObject »

hedora wrote: post #174
michaelmrose wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a persistent desire to suck the funds out of the police force budget and redirect the money to things the community values. This unlike occupy is a tangible goal and if people only elect people willing to give it to them it will happen regardless of what people outside of Seattle want.

Occupy Wall Street had a tangible goal. Break up big banks, and forgive predatory loans. Even with Obama in office, we ended up with even bigger banks and a spiraling debt crisis.

What's funny is, at the time, we thoughts its goals were intangible!

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#279

Post by joshuamorton »

Animats wrote: post #247

They need a political win on something in the next few days. Otherwise this thing fizzles out, is crushed, or turns into a joke like the 2016 bird sanctuary occupation. Some of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" apply. ⬤ "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." ⬤ "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative." That's the problem with "defund the police". "We'd all love to see the plan", as…

There have been lots of mid-sized political wins for these protests. Breanna's law, Minneapolis defunding it's police, etc. It's sustained distributed action, and some of it is not real (the NYC chokehold ban), but there's still real stuff happening.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#280

Post by chrissnell »

narrator wrote: post #212
conroy wrote: post #84

A friend lives in Seattle and texted me today about his visit last night: > I was there last night and it's such a cool pseudo utopian place > The media coverage of it is WILD > People on the internet are convinced it's protected by armed guards and people are dying of hunger and instead its...like a music festival campground > There are speakers, musicians, art walls. I took a group pic for a bunch of black guys las…

I think the media has been playing this up like crazy to try and get the alt-right to react. The alt-right consensus, at least on 4chan, is the absolute best thing for the alt-right to do to get the Democratic party to look stupid and inept and invite a voter backlash is to do nothing.

This jibes with what I'm seeing. Fox News is trying their damndest to get people worked up and generate support for intervention. Amongst my friends (many right-leaning), there is a strong consensus that this is a trap laid for Trump and that the best thing to do for everybody involved is to ignore it and leave it to the Seattle government. If it really is as chill as folks say here, it settles down and is out of the news cycle in a week. If it gets truly bad, the egg is on the face of the mayor and governor for not dealing with it sooner.
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