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The Day AppGet Died

keivan.io

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Re: The Day AppGet Died

#271

Post by akie »

mikekchar wrote: post #237
scotty79 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some higher ups decided no, they don't need to hire you Total misjudgment on their part. Thanks to this one HN post they already lost in terms of developer good will way more than his potential salary would be. Every time anyone who uses WinGet, who read this, will think 'oh, yeah, that's the tool that Microsoft build their version of behind original author's back, while stringing him and ghosting for few months".

Realistically, though, a year from now nobody will care. I mean, I started in this industry in the "MS is outright evil" era. How many people did they screw over? If I remember correctly, there was even a guy who was owed a pile of stock/stock options and when he got cancer they suddenly went missing (no need to pay the dead guy!). Day by day, year by year, these misdeeds are seen as irrelevant. MS is a different com…

Fair enough, but your friend is right about Nestlé. They're still doing loads of shady stuff.

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#272

Post by dusted »

Sounds like Microsoft. Sorry you had to try that personally, I'm certain it's stressful and frustrating, thank you for writing about it and sharing.

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#273

Post by saimiam »

mikekchar wrote: post #237
scotty79 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some higher ups decided no, they don't need to hire you Total misjudgment on their part. Thanks to this one HN post they already lost in terms of developer good will way more than his potential salary would be. Every time anyone who uses WinGet, who read this, will think 'oh, yeah, that's the tool that Microsoft build their version of behind original author's back, while stringing him and ghosting for few months".

Realistically, though, a year from now nobody will care. I mean, I started in this industry in the "MS is outright evil" era. How many people did they screw over? If I remember correctly, there was even a guy who was owed a pile of stock/stock options and when he got cancer they suddenly went missing (no need to pay the dead guy!). Day by day, year by year, these misdeeds are seen as irrelevant. MS is a different com…

Welp, I, for one, have resolved to never by VW thanks to Dieselgate. I can empathise with your Nestle hating friend.

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#274

Post by ximeng »

ijidak wrote: post #201

Keivan obviously got screwed. Having worked at Microsoft, and seeing the nature of the bureaucracy, the only advice I would give for next time is... Just realize you can't set terms with a large company like MSFT unless you get lawyers involved early. Stealing from you outright is simply too tempting, given their resources. I noticed there were some conditions Keivan tried to set regarding the future evolution of the…

Hopefully they also weigh in the fact that screwing developers over is terrible publicity. Assume 100k developers see this and are slightly less inclined to trust MS in future, this bad publicity could easily cost them 1mn USD plus. A good will gesture of 100k USD at the start for consulting could have saved everyone a lot of trouble.

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23332123 elsewhere in this thread for an example of the consequences.

The cost of GitHub to MS was around 250 usd per user. If 4000 users leave that’s already a million USD.

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#275

Post by VSerge »

waon wrote: post #202
alasdair_ wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s mentioned in the article: “ the core mechanics, terminology, the manifest format and structure, even the package repository’s folder structure” The manifest format is particularly egregious.

Not disagreeing with you, but I think it's better to make it a little bit more clear what exactly was copied. Reading the article mentioned in the OP, the main selling point for appget seems to be that the packages are written in yaml: > Do you want to know how Microsoft WinGet works? go read the article ( https://keivan.io/appget-what-chocolatey-wasnt/ ) But that alone doesn't particularly strike me as a completely…

MS not having the basic decency of reimbursing his travel expenses is also shocking, as well as incredibly petty. What a broken way of dealing with someone who dealt with MS in good faith and brought value to their ecosystem.

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#276

Post by toyg »

defnotashton2 wrote: post #214
jjeaff wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it unlikely that even large companies put their superstar famous hires through the same hiring process.

They don't for sure given a certain point. It is known. Have you ever heard of a formal interview process for execs.. No.

Actually there are processes for execs too, the board has to justify appointments. But yes, they can be a formality.

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#277

Post by onemoresoop »

This is really sad, not only did they copy your idea, not paid you anything (yeah, some kind of azure credit is not really costing them anything) nor gave you credit, they wasted your time and gave you a humiliating silent treatment. At a smaller company I tend to think that wouldn’t have happened but Im not sure to be honest. I hope that you get the credit and end up in the place you deserve to be. I wonder if Andrew is an a-hole or he really just couldnt do anything about it, it is possible that they didn’t want to remunerate you for legal reasons, in the sense that you could have asked for more later on. But no credit? I think Andrew may be as I first thought

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#278

Post by pfortuny »

After reading the second e-mail it is clear that they are trying to do something "official" and that their interest in the specific person is low (to say it mildly). Full of "going-forward" and similar corporate-speak. DANGER DANGER DANGER: when someone loses natural language, he is no longer speaking for himself.

What a pitiful world we live in.

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#279

Post by TAForObvReasons »

dmix wrote: post #264
kayone wrote: post #80

Author here, Because it's sure to come up here is a comment I wrote on Reddit that clarifies somethings, I haven't updated the original article since I'm not sure what the etiquette for updating a highly shared article is. ------ Code being copied isn't an issue. I knew full well what it meant to release something opensource and I don't regret it one bit. What was copied with no credit is the foundation of the projec…

Calling it "WinGet" was the real punch in the gut. Does Microsoft select for assholes or something? There's a thousand other package manager names [1] in the wild and they chose that one. So much for "developers, developers, developers"... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_package_manag...

In all fairness:

- "NuGet" is super-popular in .NET circles (included in Visual Studio by default)

- "apt-get" is the classic tool for Windows Subsystem for Linux

So "WinGet" certainly "makes sense" as a name without being a direct ripoff of AppGet

Re: The Day AppGet Died

#280

Post by toyg »

BetaDeltaAlpha wrote: post #57
benatkin wrote: post #24

I don't want to support this company. What are good alternatives to GitHub, TypeScript, npm, and Visual Studio Code (besides Atom)?

Gitlab is a contender for sure. I use it at my dayjob. I don't know if any of the other big editors have caught up to VSCode in terms of ecosystem though.

Are you kidding me? The Intellij ecosystem alone pre-dates vscode by decades and it’s likely much bigger already. And if you look at emacs and vim... well.
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