Well, does IQ matter for academia? Some latent ability to think quickly matters. That's the point of the SAT.
The SAT stopped correlating with IQ in 1994.
University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT
271–280 of 393 posts
Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT
#272I can't help but wonder at the motivations for these changes, at UC and other schools. It seems to be a combination of equity (it favors rich kids), effectiveness (it's not that predictive) and risk aversion (can't prove racist admissions if there's no standardized comparison). And yet... I wonder if we're throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Standardized tests _seem_ like they could be such a such a powerful fo…
I think the problem with standardized tests is that they're standardized; you can prepare for them. It reduces both the effectiveness and the equity, because preparation for the tests is something that rich kids will have better time and access to.
Standardized tests have to recycle the same 'tricks' from one exam to the next. It's how they standardize and make the tests easier and harder.
Take enough prior exams as you prepare and you begin to recognize the same question structures and answer patterns.
Buying the old exams is not so cheap, on to put prep classes or tutoring
Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT
#273I would prefer if schools just gave as concrete as possible feedback for why individual applicants are or are not admitted. i.e. Congrats, you got accepted. Your GPA ranked in the top $X percentile of our admitted class and your engagement in robotics was astonishing. or You were not admitted because while your GPA was excellent, we did not see sufficient community engagement in your extracuriculars.
There's no point in feedback since you can't go back in time to fix those issues. You should already be able to guess from looking at the profiles of students who got in and those that didn't.
I don’t necessarily agree with either of those.
Maybe a college tells me that a particular type of extra-curricular wasn’t valued as highly as I thought it was and I elect to pursue something different in undergrad (I wouldn’t recommend this but to each their own). The feedback would also provide relevant data points to future applicants if chosen to be shared.
There are plenty of examples of students who are accepted/rejected to schools which you wouldn’t expect.
Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're underestimating how much of the inequality has been baked in by Junior year of High School. 16 years of living a life where parents and teachers nurture the students for maximum growth is going to be easily reflected in any way you want to measure aptitude against someone that grew up in a rough environment. From the article it seems like the UC are going to develop their own test, that will further di…
Seems totally unrelated, unless you believe that academic aptitude is 100% environmental.
Empirical data shows those from upper middle class families tend to do better than those living near the poverty line. Seems pretty well documented at this point.
Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s called lowering your standards. It punishes the third who would have made it under the old system. Better to have a test. Doesn’t waste a year of the lives of the two thirds who drop out.
Me learning doesn't hurt you.
But lowering the standards does. And that’s the only way you’re going from a pass rate of a third to 100%. You might be able to double pass rates to two thirds by putting many more resources into teaching but that costs money or comes out of research time/teacher satisfaction. You learning does hurt the top of the class if you’re a marginal student. Students on the verge of failure take up a lot more instructional and administrative time than the top third who were going to get through anyway.
Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s very unusual among the kind of people who staff the admissions departments of selective colleges though.
Harvard, The most elite school in USA, has a church in the center of campus, an official preacher, and a whole Divinity School.
https://harvardmagazine.com/2007/07/faculty-faith.html
37% of professors at elite universities are atheist or agnostic. Saying Harvard is friendly to the religious because it has a divinity school is like saying Stanford is a hotbed of the rightwing because of the Hoover Institution, except that you would expect a lot of atheists and agnostics at Harvard’s divinity school and no Marxists at Hoover.
Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except that SAT test prep has a very small impact on scores. And the fact that there is an enormous amount of free resources. What
Test prep has a small impact ONLY WHEN ALL OTHER BACKGROUND FACTORS ARE CONTROLLED. Many studies have found that without these controls on things like parental income, school district, etc., test prep has a large impact due to the vastly improved test prep of students who can afford high quality coaching/spend lots of time preparing.
No, test prep does not have a major impact. This meta study estimates ~10 points. The SAT is essentially a disguised IQ test, it's hard to change that. https://www.hepgjournals.org/doi/abs/10.17763/haer.53.1.n06j...
Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've taken exams in college where the professors intentionally put more questions on the exam than you have time for. They say, "think of each question as an opportunity to increase your score" as opposed to caring about answering them all. The score is then standardized at the end, since most results are below 50% correct. It turns out exams like this usually give a very normally shaped distribution. More time is a…
More time is only an advantage if you get it and others don’t.
The time pressure forces others to not get it. You getting it does depend on your skill to a large degree, but extra time increases your probability of getting it.
Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT
#279Well, does IQ matter for academia? Some latent ability to think quickly matters. That's the point of the SAT.
The SAT stopped correlating with IQ in 1994.
I have taken both IQ and SAT tests, and the sorts of questions are very similar. I am doubtful there is no significant correlation.
The GRE, on the other hand, is more busywork and knowledge based than IQ insight based, in my experience.
Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't have direct experience but I think the whole system in Europe is designed to irrevocably pigeon hole students very early in the game. If I remember California State Colleges have a bunch of placement tests to gauge what level of classes to put beginning students in. I think I'd be happier with a system that throws a net wide and than deals with the result on an as needed basis. Than a hyper meritocratic syste…
> the whole system in Europe Pet peeve: There is no European system. At least every country has their own unique system.
So whats your point here?