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Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

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Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#271

Post by CobrastanJorji »

jhall1468 wrote: post #269
nateburke wrote: post #266

About 10 years ago I met the head of IT for B&H cameras in NYC. Among many things, he was in charge of the hosting for their online store. After he complained about dealing with physical servers, I asked him if he had ever considered using AWS ec2 for the website, and he replied that his boss refused because he believed that Amazon would pull data on B&H products and use it to compete more effectively. I'm not sure t…

That's absolutely not the same thing lol. What Amazon did is unethical. What you are describing is illegal.

I'm honesty curious what crime this would be. If I rent time on someone else's server, and they look at what I'm doing on that server, what illegal thing has happened?

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#272

Post by TimSchumann »

sacks2k wrote: post #171

I saw this happening a decade ago, but I had no real proof. I had a profitable Amazon store in 2010. I found niche products that Amazon didn't sell. As soon as I started getting traction on any one product, Amazon would start undercutting me, and my sales would drop to almost zero over the course of a couple of weeks. I had near 100% feedback and I had a single customer complaint that I sold them the wrong product. W…

> It taught me a valuable lesson not to build my entire business on someone else's platform.

This sounds eerily similar to what happened to a close friend of mine, and that's 100% the right takeaway from the situation.

> My wife runs a small business on Etsy and it's just as bad. They make random code changes, which bumps listings up or down and you suddenly have no orders for weeks at a time.

Same as above, different friend, but again Etsy.

> What's even scarier is if a handful of companies run everything we use online. Will I suddenly not be able to get a home loan for a decade because of an account closure?

And that's why I'm in favor of strong individual privacy laws, and corresponding enforcement of said laws. Because 'I've got nothing to hide' only works so long as your values/goals are in line with everyone else in the system you're operating in.

The second that changes, good luck and godspeed.

Thanks for the great read, and... I dunno just validating your view of things.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#273

Post by savanaly »

munificent wrote: post #155
chairmanwow1 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What really is the issue? That Amazon is leveraging its success to be successful? It's unfair that Amazon is able to see that a product category is doing well so it invests its own money into manufacturing a product to sell through its site? Do you really think that if Amazon couldn't use the data from its own site that it wouldn't procure it elsewhere? Before any product is developed there is extensive market resear…

Vertical monopolies are anti-competitive. It works like this: 1. Amazon clones independent manufacturer's product. 2. Amazon strangles manufacturer because they can promote their own product more and have lower overhead because they control the entire chain. 3. Competitor dies. 4. Amazon has no competition on this product. 5. They raise prices and/or lower quality. 6. Consumers pay more for a shittier product.

Why wouldn't 7. be: a competitor easily enters the market because they can just make the good and charge a markup that's somewhere between what amazon is charging and 0 and still make a profit and get all the business?

If what you said about amazon having less overhead prevents the above hypothetical from happening, then what's the problem? It's apparently more efficient for Amazon to supply this good and that's what an omnipotent benevolent economic dictator would choose anyways.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#275

Post by 12xo »

jhall1468 wrote: post #269
nateburke wrote: post #266

About 10 years ago I met the head of IT for B&H cameras in NYC. Among many things, he was in charge of the hosting for their online store. After he complained about dealing with physical servers, I asked him if he had ever considered using AWS ec2 for the website, and he replied that his boss refused because he believed that Amazon would pull data on B&H products and use it to compete more effectively. I'm not sure t…

That's absolutely not the same thing lol. What Amazon did is unethical. What you are describing is illegal.

Why do you feel its unethical?

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#276

Post by motoboi »

nateburke wrote: post #266

About 10 years ago I met the head of IT for B&H cameras in NYC. Among many things, he was in charge of the hosting for their online store. After he complained about dealing with physical servers, I asked him if he had ever considered using AWS ec2 for the website, and he replied that his boss refused because he believed that Amazon would pull data on B&H products and use it to compete more effectively. I'm not sure t…

There is absolutely no veil between the hypervisor and the guest virtual machines. Not in the EBS either.

If they say they won't read your data, better trust them. If you don't, stay away from their datacenters.

EDIT: fix typo.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#277

Post by 12xo »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #25

The solution isn't hoping the free market would solve this with a competing platform. The solution is to create regulations & laws that prevent this behavior. You're either a platform/retailer or you're a manufacturer. You don't get to be both because we see the perverse incentive that happens when it's allowed.

Many years ago I worked for a small analytics company bought by Amazon. My job was to analyze and report on the rise and fall of various product sectors on the web. We were in a unique position at the time, with the ability to see what URL's people were visiting. Reports we presented to Bezos, Jason Kilar and team, were used to make acquisition and growth decisions. In one case we found that that toys and plus size women's clothes were the top sellers for ecommerce in the US. They looked at the data and backed out of buying one of the major e-commerce players in toys and instead launched their own toy site / section. It was the beginning of Amazon moving away from Books and Music and into all other products.

The point is that competitive data is what drives decisions for product and segments in all areas of retail and business. Either in house or outside. Gathering that data from within your property is no different than using an outside agent.

You are acting as if they're spying on their customers, when the customers are you and me, not the reseller using their platform/space/warehouse/services.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#278

Post by zucker42 »

nateburke wrote: post #266

About 10 years ago I met the head of IT for B&H cameras in NYC. Among many things, he was in charge of the hosting for their online store. After he complained about dealing with physical servers, I asked him if he had ever considered using AWS ec2 for the website, and he replied that his boss refused because he believed that Amazon would pull data on B&H products and use it to compete more effectively. I'm not sure t…

Couldn't they use Azure?

Of course there are other reasons to use physical servers.

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#279

Post by rickety-gherkin »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #271
jhall1468 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absolutely not the same thing lol. What Amazon did is unethical. What you are describing is illegal.

I'm honesty curious what crime this would be. If I rent time on someone else's server, and they look at what I'm doing on that server, what illegal thing has happened?

Assuming that the information would be behind at least a password entrance that a user had setup, Amazon breaking through that would be considered illegal unless they had a court order or something. They can peer into metadata that your machine creates but I think looking at private information on a server that they lease out would be illegal. Maybe I'm just hopeful?

Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products

#280

Post by [deleted] »

jhall1468 wrote: post #269
nateburke wrote: post #266

About 10 years ago I met the head of IT for B&H cameras in NYC. Among many things, he was in charge of the hosting for their online store. After he complained about dealing with physical servers, I asked him if he had ever considered using AWS ec2 for the website, and he replied that his boss refused because he believed that Amazon would pull data on B&H products and use it to compete more effectively. I'm not sure t…

That's absolutely not the same thing lol. What Amazon did is unethical. What you are describing is illegal.

[deleted]
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