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Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

mensjournal.com

271–280 of 376 posts

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#271
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, well it's more subtle than that. Running on a "real" surface, that is constantly changing gradient and direction, works a lot of ancillary muscles for stability and balance that you don't get on a treadmill. The cardio workout might be the same. But if you trained for a Marathon only on a treadmill, you'd be in for a bit of a surprise when you tried a real one. Without the core strength you'd lose your form, you…

The other thing I've noticed is that when running on a treadmill, it may seem like your legs are making roughly the same motion as real running, but you're not pushing yourself forward , just upward . Your legs definitely don't have to work as hard pushing your body around.

My girlfriend is currently training for a half marathon and was told to never ever run on the treadmill with it set flat, so she goes with a fairly decent incline (not running up hill, but definitely should get some resistance) the entire time at a minimum.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#272
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time there's an article on exercise or diet, there's a pileon of people promoting their own beliefs, with no apparent sign that they read the original link. How do you address the fact that your point is actively contradicted by the article? Did you even know your point is actively contradicted by the article? I'm not even saying that proves you're wrong; what bothers me is that you just ran off to post your ow…

The author talks about his experience or getting fit by going to a gym and lifting free weights. I countered with my approach, which revolves around setting your life up so that fitness is merely a side effect. I'm not contradicting anything that he says. I used to lift weights in much the manner that he describes, and it'd be difficult to deny that it works. The thing that he misses is motivation. Most people simply…

Let's bear in mind that the author is a guy who went to several different specialists across disciplines. I'm don't think he's talking about a lack of motivation - I think it's more about trying to continue to be active in a healthy way.

The author's incentive for going to the gym was so that he could go climb or surf or ski or whatever and be both "fit" and injury-free. It's a critical distinction. There was probably a time when all he had to do was go out and make those activities a part of his existence, but I would wager that as he has aged and had different responsibilities come up just making that fitness a side effect wasn't possible. Instead, he probably tried to go ski X times a year, but got hurt the first time, and the subsequent trips never happened. He probably tried to go climbing weekly, but something tweaked and suddenly he was only climbing monthly. When it's harder to go out and run 5 miles like you used to, you're less inclined to go run 5 miles, and might slip to 3. When 3 is eventually harder than before, you might just not run at all.

I think the article is speaking more to concerns as you age and you can no longer get away as easily with just participating in the sport. Rob Shaul and his mtnathlete.com and militaryathlete.com sites address those problems quite directly, and unfortunately it involves a lot of painful work that is mostly gym based. He's designing the mtnathlete workouts to help skiiers stay healthy and be ready when the season arrives. He's training military personnel to be more durable and harder to kill. To explain, the site is a few years old, but when he started it it was as Crossfit was just starting to ramp up in popularity. Despite the advertising that it makes you better at everything athletic, Crossfit is usually all about Crossfit - there are Crossfit games now and it is in many ways its own sport now. Rob's site was very specifically geared to mountain athletes who wanted to perform their sport at a high level possible with less injury. It's not a gym program just for the sake of being a gym program.

There was a time when I could go out and make my life about doing whatever sport it may be - climbing, running, basketball, etc. - and recover quickly and easily from the activity. Now my body has aged a little, I sit in a chair too much, and suddenly a small nagging injury never goes away, and I'm less motivated to go run several miles or play basketball or climb. By incorporating durability training like the article discusses, I'm more able to avoid those prolonged periods of inactivity and keep motivation up.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#273
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of those, only the dumbbell presses are even an alternative to the bench press. Dumbbell presses are fine. But bench presses are better, and if you do them, you don't need to do dumbbell presses (but do, if you like them, I do too, as a complimentary exercise). Injuries are nothing to scoff at of course, and you should always make sure to not put on more weight than you can safely manage. Regardless of exercise metho…

I was trying to suggest other very useful exercises instead of bench presses. You need to do pullups if you do benchpresses else you'll have a big chest and weak back muscles. This will pull your shoulders in. And which will eventually lead to injuries. Yo In fact I've increased my bench by just working my back. Lots of people only work the "mirror muscles" (ie ones you can see when you check yourself out in the mirr…

Dead lifts work your back.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only made a case against the lipid hypothesis, which Michael Pollan also criticized in his book, so you have fallen into his trap of eating healthy and didn't even know it.

Meh? I buy store-brand bacon, eggs, cheap beef, and Vermont cheddar. When I treat myself, it's to a $12/lb steak (on sale at $6). I mostly don't eat vegetables aside from the odd mixed-green salad when I'm in the mood. I don't buy mechanically separated and prepackaged meat only because it either tastes worse, or costs more. I eat whatever's cheap and tasty, as much as I want, mostly meat— the literal antithesis of P…

How do you ever manage to poop?

(serious question, though I appreciate the fact that I just asked the most base question in this entire comment page)

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#275
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't infant mortality greatly skew life expectancy? I thought I remembered reading that it's the single biggest thing we've done to increase life expectancy, meaning if a hunter-gatherer reaches adulthood, they don't have an especially short lifespan compared to a developed country.

Absolutely. But the premise we're testing here essentially boils down to "we should do things like cavemen because it's natural, because it's natural it's what we evolved to do, since it's what we evolve to do it'll be healthier" The other component of that is of course that we're all fat and out of shape today because we eat foods that cavemen never had access to. One measure of health is of course weight, but so is…

I think you're missing my point: if it's infant mortality that keeps average life expectancy down, it's false to say that "caveman" diets are optimized for only aging to 30. I think it's closer to the truth to say that cavemen either died at birth, or lived a natural lifespan closer to modern man than an average would indicate. So you can't discount a "caveman" diet because average life expectancy was (and in some cultures still is) 30 years old.

And I think it's a straw man to say that accepting a "caveman" or "hunter gatherer" diet means we need to accept -every- aspect of "primitive" life.

EDIT: http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/gurven/papers/pdrdraft04182...

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#276
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speak for yourself. I'm a bit more evolved than that sort of attitude.

I think feeling fit is about effortlessly dealing with physical things you usually have to deal with in your life. "My car broke. No problem. I'll just run 5 miles to work." situation does not occur very often.

That's a ridiculous straw man.

Yes, running will make running easier for you. That's great if you play sports. But sports aren't the only time people might get winded. It may be more common here in Asia where people aren't as reliant on cars but I, for example, have to about 20 minutes of walking and several flights of stairs involved in my daily commute. So do most of the other people I see in the subway. I've moved a fridge maybe once in my life and as for your other example... I haven't ever been involved with anyone that heavy. YMMV.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#277

This is a one sided view of fitness. e.g. there is zero focus on cardio. Would be interesting to see one of these guys do a light 5 mile run. Look into real world training: running, hard hiking with a pack, mountain biking, swimming/surfing. These types of exercise have been the most rewarding for me in terms of skeletal, muscle and cardio fitness. The only thing I agree with in the article is that cardio machines in…

The only thing I agree with in the article is that cardio machines in the gym are a waste of time. Not sure this is really true or that it matters. A 5 mile run on the treadmill at an x minute pace is the same as a 5 mile run outside at an x minute pace. Advantages of the treadmill include being able to keep a given pace without making any particular mental effort. Advantages of being outside is that it's not boring.

Staying in the gym is also a hell of a lot better when it's -15 outside with a mean wind and snow on the ground.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#278
post #260

I have one bit of specialized weight training advice. We all spend entirely too much time in front of our computers, typically hunched or slouched back, deep in thought. Ten years of doing this professionally led to shoulder/neck problems, culminating in a pinched nerve between my C6 and C7 vertebrae. It improved with physical therapy, but was never truly fixed, and has bothered me off and on for two years now, despi…

Get a stand up desk, or failing that create a makeshift one with cardboard boxes. I started doing that 9 months ago. Now all my back problems are gone. 10% of my company,or roughly 20 people, have since happily switched.

Ah, but I have congenital ankle problems which make standing or walking for long periods (or just the wrong movements over a short period) problematic. My life is a balancing act of pain risk. :-)

I find that maintaining the posture that my 8th grade typing teacher enforced is solving all of my neck issues. It's just difficult to maintain awareness of posture when I'm concentrating really deeply on a bit of code or documentation. Weight training helps me overcome the changes to my musculature that occurred from a lifetime of such computer use.

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#279
post #132
post #117

The author clearly equates fitness with strength, and some of his claims are way off. Here's one: "...maintaining cardiovascular fitness doesn’t really take much more than breathing uncomfortably hard for about 20 minutes, three times a week" As a former competitive runner, I've read hundreds of studies and abstracts about improving various cardio-vasuclar metrics. 20 minutes, three times a week is barely enough to g…

You should quote the entire paragraph. "Cardio machines are innocent enough, as they won’t actually make you any less fit, but maintaining cardiovascular fitness doesn’t really take much more than breathing uncomfortably hard for about 20 minutes, three times a week. And we all know that swimming, hoops, bike riding, and even Ultimate Frisbee can get the job done, and that treadmills or elliptical trainers are a pale…

"You should quote the entire paragraph."

I didn't quote the entire paragraph because I figured everyone read it and I just wanted to point out the most objectionable part. However, looking back at the paragraph you quoted, I realized I don't just disagree with the incorrect claim that 20 minutes gets the job done. The claim about bike riding "getting the job done" and treadmills being a poor substitute is also objectionable. Many studies have shown that running generates a higher VO2 rate than biking. This holds true even for tri-athletes, who typically have more cycling than running training. Swimming is much harder to measure, but I sure wouldn't take the author's word for it with all the other unfounded claims in the article.

I could probably find another half-dozen issues with the article and quote them all, but that would make a really long comment, wouldn't it?

Re: Everything You Know About Fitness is a Lie

#280
post #60

[citation needed] Here's another anecdote: No lifting weights, only running & cycling and lately swimming. Pretty much the opposite of what the article is arguing. Since I started this I'm doing I'm doing fairly well, six pack included. I went to the gym once, and saw bulked up guys getting 5 pull ups. So I tried that and could easily do 30. Lifting weights may make you look like a bodybuilder, but are you really fit…

"Fitness" is defined relative to the task you want to accomplish. For most sports and athletes, if you are fit for that sport, you are "fit" in the sense that you are healthy. But athletes training for different sports may have vastly different abilities.

I think it's also worth noting that not all weight training has the goal of "looking like a bodybuilder."

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