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California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

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Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#271

Post by alkonaut »

sandworm101 wrote: post #266
alkonaut wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people realize that kayaking isn’t a risk so why would they avoid it? This is why no restrictions should be imposed that don’t have a very clear and obvious effect. If that means they must rely on people’s ability to do the right thing (e.g not take the bus to go kayaking, not go places where it’s crowded) then so be it. It’s better to have a sustainable and accepted lockdown that is 95% water tight, than an…

We are told not to travel unless necessary. Kayaking is never necessary. The Canadian military, the people responsible for search and rescue over HUGE areas, are themselves locked into extraordinary isolation measures. Many are living far from loved ones specifically to maintain operational readiness for real national emergencies. They aren't going to be very happy if they have to break isolation to rescue a kayak pa…

So you kayak in a lake within swimming distance of shore. This is the thing: people need to be trusted to do the right thing. What we want to avoid wasn’t people kayaking but people requiring rescue. That should just work by asking it of people.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#272

Post by r00fus »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #95
throwaway_USD wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically Trump refused to "shutdown" the States a decision he deferred to the Governors.

Honest question: did Trump have the legal authority to shutdown the states even if he wanted to? I thought this decision was always up to the governors themselves, and that the federal government didn't have any authority to ask for a shut down within each state.

If the President has no legal authority to shutdown the states, he has no legal authority to restrain opening them up either.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#273

Post by runarberg »

ummwhat wrote: post #222
brewdad wrote: post #144

So we're going to need a new name for this future sovereignty. Sierra Cascadia? New Pacifica?

California and Cascadia Republic. Put a tree on the bear flag and call it a day.

Something like this? https://imgur.com/a/tEkyAXt

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#274

Post by r00fus »

spankalee wrote: post #40
yingw787 wrote: post #23

Well, that was quick. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22828354 Today it is pandemic resolution. I fear that tomorrow, it might be economic ties, lockstep voting at the federal level, and National Guard drills, deployments, and contingency planning, where the West Coast slowly splits away from the rest of the country, with other states teaming up and following suit. This isn't the end, and it's the only appropria…

> I fear that tomorrow Why fear? This is my dream! The Senate is irreparably broken. There is no conceivable way that it can become more fairly representative of the people without a breakup of the United States. The smaller less populous states aren't going to just give up their outsized power voluntarily. California is suffering the most due to the Senate's structural unfairness, and it has the most to gain from su…

> The Senate is irreparably broken. There is no conceivable way that it can become more fairly representative of the people without a breakup of the United States.

This is untrue. We could simply add more Senators by admitting more states into the Union. Kinda like we did with Alaska and Hawaii.

Millions of citizens in DC are without Senatorial representation not to mention Puerto Rico, Costa Rica, Guam or many other "protectorates".

It can be done without dissolution of the US. It requires a simple majority vote in the Senate and House and Presidential approval.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#275

Post by seanmcdirmid »

r00fus wrote: post #272
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: did Trump have the legal authority to shutdown the states even if he wanted to? I thought this decision was always up to the governors themselves, and that the federal government didn't have any authority to ask for a shut down within each state.

If the President has no legal authority to shutdown the states, he has no legal authority to restrain opening them up either.

Yes, that is my thinking also.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#276

Post by JPKab »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #113
JPKab wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother lives in Oregon. He was complaining to me the other day that Oregon's requirement that you are not allowed to pump your own gas is an obvious COVID transmission vector. To get gas in Oregon, he follows these steps: 1.) pull up to gas station 2.) Roll down window to hand attendant (who isn't wearing a mask, nor is required to) his debit card. 3.) Get card back from attendant. 4.) Sanitize the debit card 5.)…

Oregon has already lifted the restriction on pumping your own gas, for exactly this reason.

Just wondering, is this article out of date?

https://www.koin.com/oregon-2/oregon-loosens-self-service-re...

Have they further loosened it since late March?

"Effective immediately, gas stations will be allowed to let drivers pump their own gas if they meet any of the following requirements:

The owner (of the gas station) retains documentation that there are no employees available to work as an attendant, including documentation for absences and employee hiring and retention efforts; The owner is subject to State Fire Marshal audit and has posted safety signs for how to safely operate a fuel pump; and The hours of operation under this subsection do not exceed 10 consecutive hours. “During this unprecedented time of state emergency, we need to ensure that critical supply lines for fuels and other basic services remain uninterrupted,” said State Fire Marshal Jim Walker.

Additionally, active stations must abide by the Fire Marshal’s latest guidelines:

Prepare, implement and enforce social distancing policies consistent with guidance from the Oregon Health Authority, Require an attendant to be on duty to supervise self-service refueling consistent with the social distancing policies and help mitigate the spread of COVID-19 through sanitization measures, and Designate an employee at each station to implement and enforce the social distancing policies."

The above doesn't seem like it's actually self-service unless the owner has certain issues. My brother just told me he isn't seeing self-service at his area, and wasn't notified it was an option.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#278

Post by elliekelly »

jcranmer wrote: post #202
elliekelly wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governor Baker is a Republican and Trump is big on “loyalty” and deference. Since the pact is a way for the Governors to collectively let Trump know who will actually be “restarting” the states I would guess the short delay in Massachusetts joining was so Baker could sort out the politics ahead of time with DC.

Baker (and Hogan, for that matter) are very popular Republican governors in pretty deep blue states. They haven't been big on kissing Trump's ass, both before and during this crisis.

Yes, I’m about as liberal as they come and I voted for Baker in the last election. Being well-liked on both sides of the aisle doesn’t happen by accident. Baker puts in considerable planning and effort to make that happen.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#279

Post by username90 »

ericd wrote: post #119
spankalee wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I fear that tomorrow Why fear? This is my dream! The Senate is irreparably broken. There is no conceivable way that it can become more fairly representative of the people without a breakup of the United States. The smaller less populous states aren't going to just give up their outsized power voluntarily. California is suffering the most due to the Senate's structural unfairness, and it has the most to gain from su…

The idea of secession is a horrific nightmare that no one should wish for. There are conceivable ways that things can be fixed - constitutional convention.

40 million people is more than enough to be an independent country, why would it be so horrible? Peaceful secession has happened before and can happen again.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#280

Post by AnimalMuppet »

lisper wrote: post #247
al_chemist wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're not allowed to say anything negative about Donald Trump Have you used Internet or watched American TV in last five years?

Let me be more precise: if you're a Republican politician or a civil servant you are not allowed to say anything negative about Trump and hope to keep your job. If you are a Democratic politician you are not allowed to say anything negative about Trump without risking the loss of federal money and resources that you would otherwise receive. Anyone else is, of course, free to say whatever they want. (For the time bein…

I don't know for sure, but I wonder if the Republican governor of a state like Massachusetts feels that way. He might get more votes if he spoke against Trump than if he didn't.
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