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Solving The Hacker News Problem

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Re: Solving The Hacker News Problem

#271

Post by tastybites »

gjm11 wrote: post #224
wazoox wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, actually it's rent control that gives way to that. Landlords don't rent at a loss, and prefer keeping their apartments empty, resulting in shitty communities, then squatters, etc.

Both mechanisms seem somewhat plausible. Either of you got any evidence about how often each actually happens?

It probably works both ways, depending on exactly how low or high the rents are held. I've lived in some really, really nice areas that are rent controlled (SF Pacific Heights, Santa Monica, Downtown San Diego), apparently others have lived in relatively crappy neighborhoods where rent is also controlled.

Now that I think about it further, it seems obvious that rent control would be a tool that can be used by a municipality to control rents in either direction, depending on their goals.

Re: Solving The Hacker News Problem

#272

Post by redthrowaway »

astrange wrote: post #231
redthrowaway wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, this isn't a problem related to any particular category of site. Hell, look at 4chan: bitching about newfags and how /b/ isn't good anymore, how /b/ was never good, different factions with different ideas on how to fix the problem (or what the problem is, or if there even is one), spinoff sites where the early adopters migrate to... This isn't an HN problem, it's an Internet problem. pg could probably…

SA has internal problems too. There's a constant slow cycle where the individual topic forums become boring and straightlaced because the users get proud of how mature they are, so they start new subforums where people are allowed to make "bad" but interesting posts as long as they pretend to be doing it ironically. Then everyone moves into those and it collapses, because they really did become bad posts. Sometimes t…

Still, for a site that's been up since the Dark Ages ('99), and relies almost entirely on its users to keep it relevant, it's been remarkably successful.

Re: Solving The Hacker News Problem

#273

Post by redthrowaway »

_delirium wrote: post #242
Alex3917 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When HN first started it was kind of like r/truereddit but with an emphasis on startups. HN today has almost nothing in common with this. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I don't think it's correct to say that the quality level is just an oscillation.

I guess I don't really agree; HN of several years ago typically had much briefer and less "weighty" articles and discussion than r/truereddit, and a lot more offhand stuff, like the typical techcrunch stories, and "here's how you do a thing in vim" type quick-tip articles. Certainly some good, in-depth technical articles and discussions, but that's the case now too. I've been digging through archives to try to remind…

Having never heard of Kuro5hin, I decided to google it. If it ever had a golden age, it must have fallen far. The current front page reads like a mix of 4chan, freerepublic, and the occasional tidbit of interesting content.

Seriously, a selection of headlines:

"OFFICIAL NOTICE: SITE CLOSED DUE TO AIDS"

"Judiciary Abdicated. Republic Dead. All Hail Emperor Obama"

"The New York Times Editorial Board Should Be Executed For Treason"

"Our lunatic Military"

What kind of content did it have originally?

Re: Solving The Hacker News Problem

#274

Post by _delirium »

redthrowaway wrote: post #273
_delirium wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I don't really agree; HN of several years ago typically had much briefer and less "weighty" articles and discussion than r/truereddit, and a lot more offhand stuff, like the typical techcrunch stories, and "here's how you do a thing in vim" type quick-tip articles. Certainly some good, in-depth technical articles and discussions, but that's the case now too. I've been digging through archives to try to remind…

Having never heard of Kuro5hin, I decided to google it. If it ever had a golden age, it must have fallen far . The current front page reads like a mix of 4chan, freerepublic, and the occasional tidbit of interesting content. Seriously, a selection of headlines: "OFFICIAL NOTICE: SITE CLOSED DUE TO AIDS" "Judiciary Abdicated. Republic Dead. All Hail Emperor Obama" "The New York Times Editorial Board Should Be Executed…

It's sort of a dive bar these days; a surprising proportion of the good posters are still there, but they just post different things, while they post "serious" stuff on their blogs or somewhere else. Most discussion goes on in the diaries (which are also dive-bar-ish, mixture of serious and unserious chat), while the front-page is a bit of an active joke. Hasn't had much serious content in probably 3-4 years, with the occasional exception.

(Actually that's a strangely common thing on the internet; the offensive-joker and troll types sometimes are the same people as the good-technical-content types. For example, the Rands of http://www.randsinrepose.com is also the Rands of http://www.jerkcity.com.)

As a half joke, I collected a bibliography of k5 articles that have been cited in academic papers, which includes some of the better ones: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2007/12/8/23637/9295 , http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2010/10/17/5512/5360

Re: Solving The Hacker News Problem

#275

Post by redthrowaway »

VolatileVoid wrote: post #244
buro9 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of now (9:10GMT) I've read every post on this page, and I think as short as it is, the parent (Eternal February) perhaps is the one that is closest to what I think has happened. I think this is a people problem, not a technology one. For those who haven't heard this phrase before, the "Eternal February" apes the "Eternal September". Pre-1993, each September would herald the start of a new university year and an in…

The mere fact that you took the time to compile this lengthy response and have received meaningful responses is evidence enough that HN has not "jumped the shark." It is a people problem, but I feel the biggest problem is that people are pointing out that there's a problem. Communities evolve; that is, in fact, practically all they do. Perhaps HN isn't the same as it was 2 or 3 years ago, saying that it's worse is a…

I agree, to an extent. This navel-gazing tends to precede a noticeable and rapid decline in quality, as the community becomes too focussed on itself, and less upon content and discussion. I've only been on reddit for just over a year but have noticed a marked decline in quality just in that time. Around this time last year, there were many discussions about reddit's declining quality and what's to be done about it. Now, about half the posts on even my heavily-culled front page are talking about reddit itself, half of the rest are using absurdly editorialized headlines, and there's a smattering of good content here and there. Heavy moderation seems to be key, as the mods quite simply don't seem to care anymore.

Re: Solving The Hacker News Problem

#276

Post by Perceval »

redthrowaway wrote: post #273
_delirium wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I don't really agree; HN of several years ago typically had much briefer and less "weighty" articles and discussion than r/truereddit, and a lot more offhand stuff, like the typical techcrunch stories, and "here's how you do a thing in vim" type quick-tip articles. Certainly some good, in-depth technical articles and discussions, but that's the case now too. I've been digging through archives to try to remind…

Having never heard of Kuro5hin, I decided to google it. If it ever had a golden age, it must have fallen far . The current front page reads like a mix of 4chan, freerepublic, and the occasional tidbit of interesting content. Seriously, a selection of headlines: "OFFICIAL NOTICE: SITE CLOSED DUE TO AIDS" "Judiciary Abdicated. Republic Dead. All Hail Emperor Obama" "The New York Times Editorial Board Should Be Executed…

I've posted this on HN before, but I wrote a long article about the decline of online community, which includes some retrospective about k5's decline as well: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2009/3/12/33338/3000

Re: Solving The Hacker News Problem

#277

Post by xiongchiamiov »

eps wrote: post #197
groby_b wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It strikes me that a logical step to prevent #2 is "allow only new contributing members that have been vouched for by n old members". Yes, I'm that elitist. And yes, I'm well aware I probably wouldn't get voted in :) But here's the other part - keep the site open for reading . That means it (hopefully) self-selects for quality, and other people can observe a high-quality discussion.

There is a story making rounds about hiring policies of Saint-Petersburg Mint (back in Royal Russia times). Every new hire not only needed three recommendations from current employees, but that should the new person ever get fired, those who recommended him would be let go as well. Brutal, but brilliant... even if it is not necessary true :)

This is similar to how many private BitTorrent trackers work. If someone you invited gets banned, so do you.

Re: Solving The Hacker News Problem

#278

Post by waqf »

groby_b wrote: post #83
jacques_chester wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. On reflection it resembles flocking behaviour. I imagine that website members can be modelled as simple agents with two rules: 1. A cool site has few, impressive members. 2. Move towards the cool sites. Given an arbitrary distribution of "impressive" members, this should cause a constantly moving flock of members to move from site to site regardless of its purpose .

It strikes me that a logical step to prevent #2 is "allow only new contributing members that have been vouched for by n old members". Yes, I'm that elitist. And yes, I'm well aware I probably wouldn't get voted in :) But here's the other part - keep the site open for reading . That means it (hopefully) self-selects for quality, and other people can observe a high-quality discussion.

But here's the other, other part: keep the site open for writing as well, but make the non-elites' contributions only visible when you are logged in as a non-elite. Then the elites can continue their excellent discussions unhindered, and any passing stranger can browse the elite discussions: yet everyone can have their say in the agora.

Re: Solving The Hacker News Problem

#279

Post by mkramlich »

maxklein wrote: post #270
mkramlich wrote: post #176

My suggestions for tweaks to improve the site: 1. hard ban on purely political news ("Egyptian leader stepped down! OMG!") 2. hard ban on gender-specific things ("i'm female, went to bar during hacker conference, got groped, OMG!" -- yes it was hacker conference, but gosh subtract the 'during hacker conference' and you have real life, it's independent of tech, not specific to it or due to it, just a life thing with g…

My suggestion would be simpler : have a "this is not hacker news" queue. It's like the frontpage, but it's for the stuff that is "not hackernews". Whenever something hits the frontpage that people feel does not belong, instead of whining, they just hit the "this is not hackernews" vote button. With some algorithm that can combine vote numbers, influencers or whatever, when it crosses the threshhold, it gets moved ove…

good idea. i've been using 'flag' for that now, but your idea is better because it more precisely signals why one is flagging something. makes distinction from reasons like obscene, duplicate, etc.
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