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Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

bbc.com

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Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#271

Post by hef19898 »

petercooper wrote: post #240

I'm a dad (of three) and I am not convinced that time spent at the very start of their lives is as significant as that later in their lives (note the "as", I am not saying it has no value!) when you can really nurture their passions, knowledge, etc. I did spend a lot of time with my children in their earliest days because it was the right thing to do, but I don't feel either they or I particularly gained from it (tha…

When kids a smal it is more the parents that enjoy the time with them. One, because it is just simply great. And because the workload caused by small kids is distributed between both parents. Because kids are stress. But yes, once they grow older, time with them gets more fun, simply becasue you can do more with them then just feeding and changing diapers. Which I did, a lot.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#272

Post by lotsofpulp »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #265
lotsofpulp wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I mean paid parental leave, not just parental leave. FMLA doesn't even apply to employers with less than 50 people. There's a handful of states that offer paid parental leave, and even those have many caveats. It's 2020, I bet it will be at least another 4 to 6 years before we have a federal law, and even that will be a couple decades behind other progressive countries.

> under this bill, 2.1 million civilian federal workers also will be able to take paid leave to care for a new baby after birth, adoption or the start of foster care Currently it's PAID leave for federal workers only, but it's a start. Contact your senator and tell them it's important to you.

Yes, I have. But time and time again, my fellow voters (and non voters) have shown that they don't quite care as much about things like paid parental leave as much as they do taxes, gun rights, national "security" and military engagements, restricting abortion rights etc.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#273

Post by jimmaswell »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #22

Good job Finland! Fellow Nordic here (Norwegian) and a dad. The father quota here in Norway made a huge social change. It really helped make it socially acceptable for dads to spend more time with their children. I noticed for my two sons how much of a difference it makes being around your kids when they are young. You cannot cannot substitute short time with "quality time." The amount of time you are there matters a…

> I think it is healthy for children to have both a mother and father who is actively present in their lives.

Not sure how literally this was meant (and a lot of the rest of the thread assuming a mother/father) but studies show kids do just as well with two parents of any gender.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#274

Post by darkwater »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #179
romaaeterna wrote: post #142

My family is of Norwegian extraction and I'm a dad too. My wife has a completely different relationship with my kids than I do. She also had to go through a great deal more to birth them than I did. Her parental leave was as much about medical recovery as it was bonding time with the kids. And, to put this delicately, but as something that needs to be stated because it's true and important for the discussion: she has…

The problem in contemporary culture is that we are not even allowed to have this conversation. To state the obvious fact that men and women are different and have different strengths and weaknesses (in general, as a sex) is tantamount to heresy, I guess because gender roles are associated with perceived past injustices. > Personally, I find that this "gender equality" push winds up being extraordinarily anti-woman in…

> It is still unclear to me how forcing both parents to work full-time jobs is beneficial for anyone other than corporations.

The point of these measures is not letting/forcing both parents to work. It's to make both genders equals in the eye of the capitalist employer. So, depending on the job and remuneration of the parents, maybe just one can work. And this working parent can be the mother.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#275

Post by toomuchtodo »

isodude wrote: post #224
toomuchtodo wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of that has been hired out, because my job enables me to. I do work I enjoy so I don’t have to do work I don’t enjoy.

The kids build their connection to you in weird ways, smell, touch etc. Avoiding that 100% until they speak could have weird effects in their attachment (said without any actual proof). It's of course your choice, but just saying that that choice could end up biting you or the kid in the end. No it's not fun hanging around kids all the time, but it takes a lot of not fun moments to get to the good parts.

Read my comments. I didn’t avoid it 100 percent. I make time to spend with my children every evening.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#276

Post by the_af »

Nimitz14 wrote: post #214
the_af wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagreed. Child bearing is only an initial factor; after the baby is out it goes away. The problem is breastfeeding, but there are ways around that (and some mothers, for a variety of reasons or impediments, don't breastfeed; in that case it's completely moot). So minus breastfeeding, the asymmetry has a large component of "it was always done like this", plus the mistaken idea some employers have that the leave is s…

A counterpoint: A friend of mine had a kid a year ago and he found it impossible to take care of the baby when he tried being the caretaker while the mom was away (can't breastfeed, milk in a bottle is not the same). The experience has convinced him equal parental leave is a terrible idea.

I don't understand why your friend decided that because he couldn't cope, then equal parental leave is a terrible idea.

I don't know your friend and I don't know the particulars. I'll just say one thing: of course it's difficult -- for the mother too!

I manage with the bottle, by the way. And play, and change diapers, and soothe my baby when she's upset. It's tiring, but also rewarding.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#277

Post by petercooper »

Jolter wrote: post #263
petercooper wrote: post #240

I'm a dad (of three) and I am not convinced that time spent at the very start of their lives is as significant as that later in their lives (note the "as", I am not saying it has no value!) when you can really nurture their passions, knowledge, etc. I did spend a lot of time with my children in their earliest days because it was the right thing to do, but I don't feel either they or I particularly gained from it (tha…

Swedish parental leave can be saved until the kid turns 12. Not that the 480 days will last that long, of course!

That sounds like a good idea and what I think would be better for everyone. Of course, then it's a case of avoiding the temptation of taking it too early(!) :)

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#278

Post by hising »

romaaeterna wrote: post #142

My family is of Norwegian extraction and I'm a dad too. My wife has a completely different relationship with my kids than I do. She also had to go through a great deal more to birth them than I did. Her parental leave was as much about medical recovery as it was bonding time with the kids. And, to put this delicately, but as something that needs to be stated because it's true and important for the discussion: she has…

So, you extrapolate how the world works from your personal experiences? On top of that calls people who dont agree with you autistic and men who are into "gender equality" being broken individuals? Wow, you are really open-minded and up for discussion.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#279

Post by nisuni »

gambiting wrote: post #106
nisuni wrote: post #54

Thanks but no thanks. When I’ll have a baby I‘ll have to breastfeed, after having carried him for nine months, and having him exit through my private parts. Give me my extended, non trasferrable maternal leave! Edit: since some people are misunderstanding my point: extending the paternal leave costs money. I would rather prefer those money being spent on more maternal leave.

Mothers already have a year of maternal leave, this is about fathers getting decent amount of leave as well. No one is taking anything away from you.

The government is putting some money in it. I would prefer that money was used to extend the mother’s leave.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#280

Post by 0xcafecafe »

aetimmes wrote: post #246
0xcafecafe wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens to your responsibilities at work while you are out? And are you totally cut off from work while you are out or are you occasionally responding to mails? Also are you more of an individual contributor or have a leadership role?

I was/am an IC on a medium-sized team. I had a project I was the primary contributor for within that team that I've handed off to my teammates to continue (after writing up documentation and doing some knowledge transfer). I occasionally log in to read my email to keep up-to-date with happenings among the team, but I haven't needed to respond to anything since I went out. Our team made an effort in the last year to r…

Thanks for the reply!
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