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Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

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Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#271
post #27

I haven't read this carefully enough to decide exactly how bad it is, but one thing seems clear to me: From what I see many techies are now aware and upset, and hardly anyone seems to want to defend Google anymore. I consider it more likely than not that Google will take some real beatings in the years to come. Kind of like Microsoft was fined by the US and EU, forced to advertise for competing browsers and ridiculed…

When I moved into IT almost 10-15 years ago, Google was one of the companies that I adored (in a kind of naive way, but nevertheless..). Working at that company has always been a dream of mine. They had the reputation for hiring the best of the best engineers, with great benefits and work culture. Meanwhile I'd hate to apply for them. Everything they do in terms of tracking, etc. has become so vile and almost evil th…

As an Xoogler, my experience is that one thing changed, and one thing didn't.

The thing which changed is that Google operates on a much, much larger scale than anything imaginable back in the late 90s when they first started. In 1999, nobody had any inkling about the cloud and SaaS revolution that was about to come. Nobody knew that everything was about to move into web apps and cloud services, which permit and require(?) tracking in ways, and on a scale, no one had thought possible. (Require with a question mark because - ad tracking aside - what little I know of frontend development includes that they need to be able to see certain information, like your browser type, in order to provide effective services.)

The thing which didn't change is the mindset of the engineers building the services. On average, Googlers tend to be much less concerned with personal privacy than an equally educated consumer, and much more interested in the features and services they can build for themselves and others which happen to require huge amounts of personal information to function. In other words, a typical Googler is more likely to think, "Oooh, having a personal digital assistant is great! If I give Google access to my email inbox, it can suggest tasks, automatically add calendar invites, and do other cool things."

The problems we're seeing now come when the engineers working on advertising products have that mindset and access to Google-scale information. They don't consider it a problem or a violation because they don't mind targeted ads, they don't mind giving up their data in exchange for services, and they don't (want to) understand why people who aren't them might object.

It's a lot more complicated than that because Google, while the largest and arguably most effective, is not the only player in this game. There are a lot of other corporate and social influences at play. This is just to answer the question about what changed at Google.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#273

If you strace chrome on linux it also picks up /etc/machine-id (or it did back when I looked), which is a 32 byte randomly generated string which uniquely identifies you and on some systems is used as the DHCP ID across reboots.

When puppeteer first came out I was nervous to use it for scraping because I could totally see Chrome pulling tricks like this to help recaptcha in identifying the bots. I’m still not convinced they aren’t.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#274
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this what cookies are for?

Cross-site cookies are soon getting blocked by Chrome starting Chrome 80 if I'm right (whereas this header isn't)

Chrome will only block cross-site cookies that don't use HTTPS and the SameSite=Lax flag. It's easy for trackers to user HTTPS and SameSite=Lax. This Chrome change is mostly intended to protect against Cross Site Request Forgery (CSRF) attacks, not to block trackers.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#275
post #95

I see people recommending Firefox, but I'll say that for mac users Safari is a very usable browser too. It's quite fast, and to my knowledge is not collecting/sharing my personal data with apple. https://www.apple.com/privacy/ These days I only use chrome for the g-suite tools that seem to require it to avoid mid-meeting crashes.

Safari is horrible for HTML5 games. Dealing with all sorts of issues to the point where I've more or less given up and just tell my Safari players to use something else.

Some of my front-end colleagues like to tell me that Safari is the new IE 6. Not in terms of the market domination (that's Crhome for you), but in terms of dragging the front-end back with unimplemented features, quirks, and bugs. The amount of hacks they have to add just to support Safari is uncomfortable.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#277

I don't understand why Google and some other tech companies use their users as involuntary, unpaid guinea pigs. No consent. No opt-out. What's the motivation? Is it simple laziness because they don't want to deal with wetware? Is it afraid that if people knew what was happening they wouldn't be happy? Google has eighty brazillion employees it can test new features on.

It's because most people don't care and if it means that they have a better product at the end of it, they'll take the trade.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I moved into IT almost 10-15 years ago, Google was one of the companies that I adored (in a kind of naive way, but nevertheless..). Working at that company has always been a dream of mine. They had the reputation for hiring the best of the best engineers, with great benefits and work culture. Meanwhile I'd hate to apply for them. Everything they do in terms of tracking, etc. has become so vile and almost evil th…

Well, I'm an ex employee. Actually nothing has changed inside the company. "Tracking" as you put it isn't perceived as evil, it never has been, and for good reasons. The only thing that's changed is people's perception of the company and - very recent post 2016 political issues aside - that was mostly driven by a sustained campaign by an angry media industry that wanted money (see: link taxes). Firstly, if tracking u…

I think it's key that I never see any kind of comparative behavior. Does Amazon do this, does Facebook do this, do private platforms do this? How does this compare to tracking done by apps? Based on my experience and knowledge, Google falls on the ethical side of the spectrum among its peers.

I get ads from Microsoft now (in app in some cases, other free services). I know this is a Mac/Linux heavy forum, but I would also love to see how this tracks with Windows telemetry (to the point made about security). I am sure that every Windows 10 install has higher fidelity fingerprinting sent with telemetry.

What has changed is how easily people can be manipulated on social media and how they can be programmatically orchestrated with much less effort than before 2000-2005.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#279
post #209

You can see all the domains they add the header to here: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/comp... Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21034849

Actual list: https://cs.chromium.org/chromium/src/components/google/core/...

This seems like a cut-and-dry case of getting caught in monopolistic behavior. The code is right there. The Chrome codebase has special features for Google’s own web properties.

I hope all these AGs suing google have some good tech advisors. It’s hard to keep track of all the nefarious things google has been up to over the past decade.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#280
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happily! 2.5 million, 2018: https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2018/mozilla-2018-fo... 2.3 million, 2017: https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2017/mozilla-2017-fo... 1 million, 2016: https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2016/2016_Mozilla_Fo... https://static.mozilla.com/moco/en-US/pdf/2015_Mozilla_Found... Firefox market share has been in decline (30% to https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61…

That's not "tied", which would imply a contractual relationship...

That's malarkey. Tied is not exclusively used to imply a "contractual relationship," and that's (if anything) a minority-usage of the idiom of tied to/with.
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