How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost? • Hacker News Board

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#271

Post by leetcrew » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 12:37 PM UTC

wastedhours wrote: post #253

bartread wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what it's like in Spain but, in France, if you hog the outside lane you will get flashed and beeped at. French drivers do not tolerate lane hogs at all and generally manifest excellent lane discipline: I wish the UK were more like that.

I've started driving again after a couple of years off, and it still astounds me that people lane hog the middle lane. I don't know if it's laziness, ego, or fear of motorways but it should be taught as a rule. I usually make it a point to overtake and then, if possible, go straight back across to the left lane. Highly doubt the hogger is paying any attention, but I feel more content feeling like I've taught somethin…

I suspect it's just out of fear. they don't want to deal with cars merging into their lane from entrance ramps.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#272

Post by leetcrew » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 12:40 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #258

hinkley wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I recall as a young man when the guy in the shiny SUV would try to cut you off because they had a bigger vehicle. I felt like I could tell the moment when they realized that the repairs on their car would be more expensive than my entire car, and slink back into their lane.

Everyone talks tough on the internet but when it comes down to it basically everyone will avoid an accident because regardless of who's fault it would be it's still a massive pain in the ass and the proliferation of dash-cams has much reduced the opportunities to be a dick and make the other guy pay.

if you hit the back of someone's car, you're almost certainly paying regardless. you would have to prove they were intentionally brake checking you or something like that.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#273

Post by rayiner » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 12:46 PM UTC

inferiorhuman wrote: post #190

rayiner wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point--I forgot WMATA is in the middle of major rail car purchases. The 6-year plan for rail systems, track rehabilitation, and stations is $600 million annually. I've updated my numbers above accordingly.

Again you're making an apples to oranges comparison. The metro budget also includes expenditures for bus and paratransit service, station improvements, fare collection modernization, fire alarm upgrades, information technology projects, police services, and so-called "business support investments". Per the budget the plan is to spend at most $249 million annually (less for most years) on track and structures rehabili…

I excluded those items from the Metro budget. I included signaling and stations, because those are a necessary part of subway maintenance that don’t have much of an analog with roads. (Traffic lights must be maintained, but train signaling systems are very complex and very expensive to maintain in comparison. There are millions of feet of wiring throughout the Metro system and each track segment is wired up for the traffic control system to work.)

In any event, the point isn’t to say that road paving is cheaper, but to address GP’s question, which is how cities can afford it. It’s an order of magnitude comparison to put the number into context. (For one thing, the road maintenance budget for Cedar Rapids is overstated by a factor of two, because I used the projection of what the city thinks it ideally needs to spend rather than what it does spend.)

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#274

Post by beerandt » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 12:55 PM UTC

imtringued wrote: post #260

beerandt wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To get people to respect the passing lane, I propose: Left-most lane on controlled access highways should be rear car, by default, has the right-of-way.

When I see someone behind me I will switch to the right but sometimes I am too slow (=they are significantly above the speed limit) and the speeding idiots try to pass me on the right side even if it is illegal. When someone is going 200km/h on a 130km/h road you don't want to block their path by suddenly switching at the last moment. This type of regressive behavior is disgusting. When someone tries to pass I now ha…

Not sure where you are, but in the US, the rule is to stay right in the first place. Not get over once someone is coming. This avoids all the problems you mention.

It's just that people don't do it, and have little incentive to. Part of what I'm suggesting is that you should have to be ultra cautious anytime you're in the passing lane. Which is an incentive to quickly get out of it.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#275

Post by adrianN » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 12:59 PM UTC

peter303 wrote: post #240

melling wrote: post #15

Major urbanized is incredibly expensive. Tens of millions... I read somewhere that China spends $30 million per mile of high-speed rail. 22,000 miles and counting. The US is going to bankrupt itself trying to modernize its aging infrastructure.

Despite the US leftist whining about the disappearing middle class, the US middle class is still a beacon to the world in actual prosperity. The Us can afford 80% to own vehicles to drive on its still decent roads, while its only 60% in Europe and 25% in much-touted China.

European here. I could buy a luxury car right now with cash, but I wouldn't know what to do with it. My bicycle and public transport are much more convenient.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#276

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 1:10 PM UTC

_jal wrote: post #208

jedberg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know lots of car free people in the city who just rent a car for weekend trips. Still cheaper than owning a car.

Also less stress. I use Zipcar for random errands and rent one for overnight trips. Last year I think I spent around $1500 on cars, all in. Zipcars are parked nearby, probably closer than I'd find a parking spot on average and basically always available. The rental place I use is 1/4 mile away. They know me by name. I never move a car for street cleaning, deal with a busted window, or pay tickets. If you don't need o…

[deleted]

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#277

Post by ryanar » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 1:19 PM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #44

zdragnar wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since rural roads get significantly less traffic, they require less maintenance (Though get similar amounts of frost heave damage). Maintenance is often just filling in potholes and cracks, with occasional resurfacing. Of course, there are a ton of non-local funding that gets drawn from: - federal and state gas taxes - state vehicle registration fees (varying by type and weight of vehicle) - state, county and municip…

Having lived in the midwest and the south, frost heave has a _major_ impact! Seems like the cycle is 12 years or so on road repavement, but that's anecdotal. Also note there are a _lot_ of grading options available, some as simple as gravel and tar.

Around where I live they call it stone and oil, and if it is the same thing as gravel and tar, that is the absolute worst way to regrade a road for the consumer. The sound of oil and stones smacking against your car when you unwittingly turned down a road that was recently stone and oiled is awful.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#278

Post by beerandt » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 1:21 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #150

beerandt wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To get people to respect the passing lane, I propose: Left-most lane on controlled access highways should be rear car, by default, has the right-of-way.

In my experience, this really only encourages "king of the road, get out of my way" behavior. Source: South Floridian driver who does felonious speeds in the left lane (typically in a speeding convoy, with everybody else doing the same speeds, if not higher)

It's never been tested, to my knowledge. To be clear, I'm not suggesting people tailgate and drive aggressively in the left lane. I'm literally suggesting cars in the left lane have to legally yield to overtaking traffic from behind, just as passing on a two lane highway requires yielding to oncoming traffic.

And I would expect behavior improvement, if nothing else, on the fact that ambiguity is removed and time of conflict is reduced.

>king of the road, get out of my way" behavior.

I get that's not something people might want to "encourage" , but a certain amount of conflict and congestion is resolved by allowing the people who think they're king, be king in the left lane. If you don't want to go faster than the car behind you, you can be king in the right (or any other) lane.

It might not feel right based on principle, but in a practical sense it solves a lot.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#279

Post by Aengeuad » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 1:23 PM UTC

bartread wrote: post #203

Stevvo wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all of Europe, undertaking is illegal. When we come to the US, driving feels like you are in a third world country.

In the UK it's actually not illegal: it's just advised against, and considered bad form in most situations by most drivers. And, of course, if you cause an accident by undertaking the police will (rightly) throw the book at you. Examples where it's considered acceptable to undertake: - In heavier or queuing traffic inside lanes might move faster than outside lanes: this is OK, and it's considered better and safer to…

Like many other things in the Highway Code there may be no specific offence for failing to follow it but the police have enough freedom with fixed penalty notices making disregarding the rules an ill advised activity.

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q891.htm

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#280

Post by cactus2093 » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 1:41 PM UTC

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #20

I'm planning to live a car free life soon. I'll be moving in to the city so almost everything is within walking distance and just about everything is accessable via public transport. The only thing I haven't been able work out is how I will continue to go mtn biking since bikes aren't allowed on the bus. But I just can't justify the massive expense of owning a car and a car park for one activity.

YMMV, but as someone who lives in the city in SF and hasn’t ever owned a car before, I just got a car a month ago and so far it’s been a great decision, I’m loving it.

Before this I did zipcar or other services for the occasional trip, and sure, it’s convenient enough to physically get to the cars (unless they get fully booked in my neighborhood which does happen) but it’s still quite a bit of overhead. It’s a pain always having to know exactly how long you’ll be gone to book the right number of hours, since someone might book right after you so you can’t rely on being able to extend it at the last minute. And every time you book one for a day, you have to do the calculation - is it really worth spending $100 to go to a friend’s bbq in the suburbs? You also don’t have specific gear you may need like snow chains or mountain bike racks. I just ended up not using it all that often, only for specific big planned trips, and even then it adds additional stress.

Owning a car will certainly be more expensive for me overall, but I‘ll also use it a lot more. And I consider myself an urbanist, I’ve always been proud not to own one. Now I feel like I’ve been tilting at windmills all this time and it’s nice to give it up. SF is an insanely car-centric place for being so-called progressive, which sucks for density, and walkability, and street life, and pedestrian and biker safety. Public transit, especially on the weekends, is pretty bad. For instance getting from the east side of the city out to ocean beach or land’s end, would take over an hour on muni, but it’s a 20-30 minute drive. Public transit to get to even very popular destinations close to the city, like Napa or Muir Woods, is often non existent. Instead of being annoyed by it, now I can take better advantage of the perks of living here and do more with my free time, which is absolutely worth it to me right now.

My goal this year is to get out more, do more day hikes and other short trips, and so far it’s going great. I feel kind of dumb now for holding out this long, actually.