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Programming languages are being deleted from Wikipedia

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Re: Programming languages are being deleted from Wikipedia

#271

Post by pbhjpbhj »

greendestiny wrote: post #106
chrismonsanto wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I've done a Google Scholar search for Alice ML. There is roughly one admissible source -- "Through the looking glass" in Trends in Functional Programming. Small workshop paper, 12 citations according to CiteSeer. Doesn't show up in the ACM Digital Library. There are a number of other papers on Saarland University's website, but they are either 1) not peer reviewed (tech reports) 2) not cited or 3) not actua…

35 citations according to Google Scholar. So to count for notability: - An article can't be from a workshop? - It must solely be about a topic? - It must be peer reviewed? At this point you must acknowledge that your own complicated rules for notability have diverged a long way from those stated anywhere else.

Ha, I actually looked through the SERPs that Google Scholar gave me listing 33 citations - 18 were obvious false positives. The other listings appeared a priori not to be a completely different field of discourse (though several looked very dubious from the titles.

I've also now reviewed the AfD comments. It seems that no reason was given for why Alice ML was notable beyond it's inclusion and reference in other articles. The proposer was clearly knowledgable about the subject and had reviewed the available literature. The deletion consideration seemed logical and well founded. The failure if there was one was there not being someone else who knew the subject matter and could provide a good reason for inclusion.

Re: Programming languages are being deleted from Wikipedia

#272

Post by pbhjpbhj »

cabalamat wrote: post #216
_delirium wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging by the discussion so far, I would be willing to wager that most people in fact are unfamiliar and have not read anything. One experiment that could be useful is for people to just follow the "Articles for deletion" page for a few days when it's not currently focused on something they're personally big fans of. Say, next Monday through Wednesday. Then everyone would be much better informed to explain what's wr…

> They'd also have a better understanding about the kind of crap that gets regularly deleted Most of it isn't crap. For example, I looked at the top 5 articles listed on 13th February -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion... #1 is an internet marketing company. It has a website which verifiably exists. People considering doing business with them would find this useful. It should be kept. #2…

Would you describe yourself as a hoarder? Applying your argument to personal belongings would appear to mean that unless it's actually completely unusable for anything it should be kept - even excrement is useful (very), as are old drinks cans (perhaps you could make a solar reflector), as are worn out clothes (make rags for cleaning), as are cellophane wrappings (could be heat welded and used as transparent insulation), ... sorry I'm digressing wildly.

Anyhow, the measure of inclusion on WP is not "isn't crap" but "is it notable" and whilst that gives a huge range to argue over it's is still clearly different to the question of "is it crap".

Take your sportsman - do you think that WP should be exhaustive? What is it about them that's notable and can be confirmed from other references?

Re: Programming languages are being deleted from Wikipedia

#273

Post by tommorris »

cabalamat wrote: post #210

I recently created an article about Sunder Katwala ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunder_Katwala ) who is the head of the Fabian Society (a prominent UK think tank). The article had been up for less than a month when someone requested speedy deletion, despite the article having ample evidence of the subject's notability. Deletionists are out of control on Wikipedia, and need to be stopped. I've thought about writing…

That's never been tried before. Except with Citizendium, Deletionpedia, Knowino, Wikinfo, Includipedia...

Re: Programming languages are being deleted from Wikipedia

#274

Post by salvadors »

jacques_chester wrote: post #261
salvadors wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be willing to pay me five one thousandths of a cent for every article I could create?

No, because of a clear agency problem. But I'd be prepared to donate the several dozen thousandths of a cent required to keep the deleted articles.

Several dozen? What about several million? Several billion?

Re: Programming languages are being deleted from Wikipedia

#275

Post by bane »

mckoss wrote: post #267
bane wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest problem I have with the notability guidelines is that none of the editors (pedantic as they tend to be) understand what the word "guideline" means. Most of the AfD discussions center around WP:N. Yet notability is a scarily vague and personal criteria. In this case, the original deletion discussion appeared to be 100% in favor of keeping the articles in question with only Monsanto against. The onl…

Can you please not use undefined Wikipedia terminology here? I have no idea what AfD and WP:N are referring to.

Apologies, it's terribly easy to drop into jargonland when discussing Wikipedia.

AfD is "Article for Deletion".

WP:N are the notability guidelines Wikipedians are supposed to use when deciding if something is notable enough to be included and to keep out one-off topics.

Re: Programming languages are being deleted from Wikipedia

#276

Post by drallison »

carussell wrote: post #239
billswift wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think wikipedia (like some other sites I have tried to use) is intentionally obscure; it gives the "Wikipedia is my life" types more control.

Oh, come on, now. It's just that the wiki paradigm is used throughout. Talk pages, for example, are basically no differently editable from their respective articles; Talk:Transport_in_Nagpur is just a plain ol' wiki page that's been created at that name. Hanlon's razor, et cetera, et cetera.

It seemed to me that everything is tied to a particular page or entry/ There did not seem to be any appropriate place to bring up a pervasive action involving a multiplicity of pages.

Re: Programming languages are being deleted from Wikipedia

#277

Post by getsat »

carussell wrote: post #234
getsat wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is Wikipedia's policy on personal offsite URLs on user pages? I think it's just people editing his profile out of spite due to this issue. I agree that it's not done with good intentions.

You are also welcome to include a simple link to your personal home page Although, that's not a policy page; it's a guideline, but I realize you weren't using a strict definition of the term wrt to Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:USERPAGES#What_may_I_...

Thanks for the info.

Re: Programming languages are being deleted from Wikipedia

#278

Post by purp »

tsycho wrote: post #199
chrismonsanto wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, of course I know that :( The problem was that the papers mentioned were either 1) not about the subject in question or 2) not cited enough to count. Hopefully your professors also drummed into you that anyone can write a paper and send it to a conference -- the kicker is if it actually makes an impact. Isn't that more-or-less the definition of notability? None of the articles I nominated for deletion had any reli…

HN people, while I whole-heartedly disagree with chrismonsanto's actions here, let's not do any personal attacks. From wikipedia: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greys_Law ) "Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."

It's been (properly) folded into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarks_Law

Re: Programming languages are being deleted from Wikipedia

#279

Post by mckoss »

bane wrote: post #275
mckoss wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please not use undefined Wikipedia terminology here? I have no idea what AfD and WP:N are referring to.

Apologies, it's terribly easy to drop into jargonland when discussing Wikipedia. AfD is "Article for Deletion". WP:N are the notability guidelines Wikipedians are supposed to use when deciding if something is notable enough to be included and to keep out one-off topics.

Thanks!

Re: Programming languages are being deleted from Wikipedia

#280

Post by namdnay »

maximilianburke wrote: post #215
namdnay wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unilaterally? Anyone can !vote on an AFD.

Anyone can vote on whether or not an article should be deleted but how many people actually do? I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of Wikipedia users don't know, and don't care, about Wikipedia politics. If something is in the process of being deleted that I don't know about then I can't vote on whether or not I want it to be kept around. Wikipedia is great for jumping from link-to-link to find out new thin…

> I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of Wikipedia users don't know, and don't care, about Wikipedia politics

If they don't care about the "politics", they shouldn't complain if the direction chosen by the project does not suit them.

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