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Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

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Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#271

Post by jhedwards »

merpnderp wrote: post #259
dbingham wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going for a perfectly maintained look to wild plantings, then yeah, that's a a lot of work. We've replaced our lawn with wild savanna, and it's zero work. We just let it go. It looks totally wild, and I'm happy with that. (Getting it in place - removing the invasives, improving the soil, planting trees, and spreading native wildflower and grass seeds was a lot of work - but since its established its very li…

I think about the generation that first started having lawns and how they came from farm country and knew all about having native/weed "lawns". The hay fever, the bugs and parasites, the snakes, all this drove them to appreciate a nice fresh lawn your kids could roll around on and enjoy. It's gonna be a hard sell to get people to enjoy something their grandparents overwhelmingly knew to be inferior.

I agree with this to an extent because I love yards, but you're talking about the generation that smoked indoors and drove without seat belts. Moving forward a bit, my mother grew up thinking margarine and canned goods were better than fresh food (convenient, cheap, and doesn't go bad!).

We have the benefit of better science and a bit of hindsight and can see how the move to lawns has caused pollution on a massive scale and reduced native insect populations. I think at the very least stopping the use of fertilizers and adding wildflower gardens at the borders of your yard is a good plan.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#272

Post by fenwick67 »

larnmar wrote: post #37
freepor wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, lawns are obviously a dumb idea unless you're using the lawn for something like relaxing or playing games. If you're just in a conformity contest with your neighbors then you might as well have something zero-maintenance or agriculturally productive there.

Lawns are aesthetically pleasing to humans. It has been widely observed that humans, having adapted to life in the African savannah, have a tendency to turn everything into an idealised version of their natural habitat. Regents Park, or your local golf course, is like a superstimulus version of the nicer parts of prehistoric Kenya. Lots of nice green grass; not too long, indicating grazing animals nearby. Trees scatt…

Do you have anything to back this up or is this just 100% conjecture by you?

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#273

Post by matt_morgan »

utopian3 wrote: post #249
_qwfv wrote: post #25

Getting rid of our lawn and growing other stuff has been amazingly fulfilling. I have fresh produce most of the year, I've got honeybees and bumblebees and mason bees coming around. I have to do a lot less maintenance, and when I do it's more varied and interesting. Everything from fruit trees to berries, flowers to vegetables, herbs to herbal teas like chamomile. Strongly recommend looking at what will grow in your…

We get a lot of rabbits.. How do you keep them out of your produce?

People have ways and you can google that. It won't be perfect. We don't have a lot of rabbits but we have groundhogs, chipmunks, squirrels, deer, and lots of birds. Our strategy is basically:

1) grow things like wildflowers that don't get eaten (but do get pollinated) 2) grow things that produce more than you need (tomatoes in our case, but summer squash is another good example) 3) grow things that produce more than can be eaten by the critters (pumpkins) 4) grow things that most critters don't want (chili peppers, basil) 5) enjoy the fact that some critters got something to eat, instead of treating it like a problem. We don't try to keep anybody out of anything.

#5 is easier for us than it is for a lot of people, I'm sure, but it's easier if you get #1-4 right. If I were growing things that took lots of effort I might be annoyed but where we live (southeastern Pennsylvania), most things just grow.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#274

Post by ZeroFries »

ladyattis wrote: post #239
ZeroFries wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the viable alternative, having similar aesthetics to a traditional lawn. However there's still a fair amount of push-back. I just bought a house and am planning a clover lawn this spring, and discussing it with extended family over the holidays was met with a large amount of skepticism.

That's sad. Clover is easier to manage and it's actually softer on your feet. So if you have kids who want to play outside and forget their shoes they won't get scratched up like you would on some more durable grass species.

I'm hoping it's less itch-provoking as well. I can't lie on grass without irritating my skin like crazy.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#275

Post by danans »

logfromblammo wrote: post #269
bluGill wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is in fact the purpose of lawns: to show you are rich enough to not surround your house with food gardens. The poor had to plant food anyplace they had legal rights to soil, the rich can plant non-food to show off.

The original purpose of lawns was to provide sight lines for castle defense. The forest was cut down, and native ground cover dominated the cleared regions. It was kept short by grazing animals. It was our old pal Louis and his Versailles palace that introduced the close-cropped grass lawn . It was kept short by grazers and gardeners. The poor used their near-house property to grow vegetables and culinary herbs. The…

> It wasn't until the mechanical lawnmower that the grass lawns became entirely useless. Grass is ruminant food, and ruminants are meat.

But ruminants were never a part of the American suburban lawn the way they were in old world villages and wealthy estates. American lawns are almost completely post lawn-mower.

The American suburban lawn is an explicitly visual copy by the post-war working class of the luxuries previously available only to the upper classes of both American and European societies, minus the undesirable aspects like manure.

The new resistance to lawns is occurring in places where the post-war fantasy of pseudo aristocratic life for the working class is breaking down, for either economic or environmental reasons.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#276

Post by ryanmarsh »

_qwfv wrote: post #25

Getting rid of our lawn and growing other stuff has been amazingly fulfilling. I have fresh produce most of the year, I've got honeybees and bumblebees and mason bees coming around. I have to do a lot less maintenance, and when I do it's more varied and interesting. Everything from fruit trees to berries, flowers to vegetables, herbs to herbal teas like chamomile. Strongly recommend looking at what will grow in your…

I love vegetable gardening however I have it constrained to a plot in the back yard. When your entire yard (front and back) is productive is it visually appealing?

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#277

Post by jf22 »

core-questions wrote: post #56
freepor wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the parent of a toddler I love dandelions because he loves to pick them and blow their seeds into the air.

Your neighbours may not appreciate this as much as you do. I have my toddler gather me the flowers pre-puffball as bouquets for Mummy which helps prevent them from getting a chance to go to seed.

I'm guessing your toddler enjoys this but this comment reads as if trick your toddler into doing work so your neighbors don't have to deal with a few extra dandelions.

It reads wrong to me but I get it.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#278

Post by dbingham »

merpnderp wrote: post #259
dbingham wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going for a perfectly maintained look to wild plantings, then yeah, that's a a lot of work. We've replaced our lawn with wild savanna, and it's zero work. We just let it go. It looks totally wild, and I'm happy with that. (Getting it in place - removing the invasives, improving the soil, planting trees, and spreading native wildflower and grass seeds was a lot of work - but since its established its very li…

I think about the generation that first started having lawns and how they came from farm country and knew all about having native/weed "lawns". The hay fever, the bugs and parasites, the snakes, all this drove them to appreciate a nice fresh lawn your kids could roll around on and enjoy. It's gonna be a hard sell to get people to enjoy something their grandparents overwhelmingly knew to be inferior.

We do have bugs and snakes. And we love that. The big old black rat snake that shows up every spring has become a marker of time for us. She's pretty docile and friendly, she ignores us and we ignore her. The possums, groundhogs, and racoon are much the same. My niece and nephew love watching the frogs and gold fish in our pond, and exploring the many bugs that have taken up residence in our wild savannah.

The mosquites were here before the transformation - they come from the scrapyard up the road - and the changes we've made have actually reduced them in the local area. We've increased the number of frogs, bats, and dragonflies to keep them under control. We don't have ticks to speak of, the possums take care of them.

As for hay fever, you get that in suburbia just as bad or worse. You realize that the Yew bushes that everyone loves planting are among the worst producers of allergenic pollen, right?

Again, this is part of the aesthetic change we need to make. Realizing that we are a part of and depend upon the natural environment. And figuring out how to fit ourselves into it comfortably, instead of trying to remove ourselves from it or pretend we are somehow above it or separate from it.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#279

Post by dbingham »

dhimes wrote: post #206
dbingham wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going for a perfectly maintained look to wild plantings, then yeah, that's a a lot of work. We've replaced our lawn with wild savanna, and it's zero work. We just let it go. It looks totally wild, and I'm happy with that. (Getting it in place - removing the invasives, improving the soil, planting trees, and spreading native wildflower and grass seeds was a lot of work - but since its established its very li…

Oh- so you're that neighbor. It's not just a change in your aesthetics that's needed. If you live in a community then it's prudent to get community buy-in. Especially if you have kids. Community reputation means a lot more than some people realize. Source: I've been on both sides of this one.

As it happens, my neighbors are of varying opinions on the matter. The ones I hear from, love it. I'm sure there are those who hate it, but I don't hear from them. But this is how you make change. You need the pathfinders to show how it can be done and start the discussion.

Re: Renowned Entomologist Says ‘Get Rid of Your Lawn’

#280

Post by jf22 »

duxup wrote: post #263
300bps wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My neighborhood probabbly isn't going to be reconfigured anytime soon The problem is new neighborhoods are being put up literally every day across the country and we are cookie-cutting them out the same way we've done since the 1940s because everyone has the same attitude you've exhibited of "Don't care, want my lawn."

>everyone has the same attitude you've exhibited of "Don't care, want my lawn." I mean here I am reading the article and obviously interested, I talk about the practical impact of what it would mean to change existing lawns, the fact that I leave a bunch of my lawn wild, and you basically ignore that and boil down my point of view into something it isn't. It's not surprising we have such a divides about such issues.

Saying "I don't want to take away the lawn from my kids" is saying "Don't care, want my lawn."
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