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Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

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Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#271

Post by nicoburns »

posedge wrote: post #187
herf wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we were looking at this quite a while ago. Lighting is a really hard business (especially residential) so we did not make the leap, and mainly have tried so far to work with people who are in that business. We thought back then that some form of "smart lighting" would be universal. This mostly hasn't happened, so the truth is that the opportunity is different than we had guessed. Today most "smart" replacement l…

Out of curiosity, what makes lighting such a hard business? I have given the issue some thought as well. f.lux integration with Hue is great, but unfortunately not a solution for me, as I'd have to keep my windows pc running all day.

The fact that bulbs are 1. small and 2. run on mains electricity is a big complicating factor. By far the easiest way to build this would be with dual-colour LED strips. But that's not how most people want to light their homes.

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#272

Post by bryanmgreen »

rajbot wrote: post #155
herf wrote: post #134

(Michael from f.lux): this kind of thing is necessary for most buildings, because otherwise people don't get a "day" signal when they spend time indoors. Most of us spend >90% of our time inside. However, we shouldn't mess with light levels like these (or even somewhat lower ones) without some limits, and the main one is some automatic timing to turn things down after it gets too late. Otherwise you will find yoursel…

Have you considered manufacturing f.lux for home lighting, such as a wall-mounted controller for Hue or Ikea bulbs that changes color spectrum depending on time of day? Or possibly bulbs with f.lux build in, so no external controller is required?

YES YES YES.

I've been looking for a hardware solution to this problem so long.

I would kill to have like a programmable dimmer knob that can progressively adjust both temperature and power set to a fixed temperature and power at start (ie: 3750k at 100%) and finish (ie: 2500k at 10%) positions then it auto-calculates the right spot in-between.

Does anyone know if I could do this on a Pi?

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#273

Post by rdiddly »

taneq wrote: post #117
wheels wrote: post #51

I usually eschew labels, preferring simply "sleep weirdo", but I fit the pattern of "Non-24 Sleep-Wake Disorder", with my sleep and waking times drifting progressively later at semi-regular intervals. The result is that I'm often awake through the night. (This week I'm going to bed around 9:00 a.m.) Even with that, I've noticed some pretty big productivity swings based on the season. Interestingly, this hit me very h…

> I fit the pattern of "Non-24 Sleep-Wake Disorder", with my sleep and waking times drifting progressively later at semi-regular intervals. This is a disorder now? I thought that's just how humans worked. It's how I work, anyway - if nothing else (like work, or children waking up at 5:30am) forces me to get up at a set time, I'll slowly cycle through until I'm going to bed at sun-up and waking up at 3pm.

I think there have been studies where people in sleep labs without any natural light, clocks or other cues mostly tended toward ~25-hour days. The "disorder" part is when you can't help but do this, despite having access to all those cues and despite all efforts to the contrary.

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#274

Post by jiofih »

bildung wrote: post #269
lm28469 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Full sunlight has up to 30000lux of blue light alone Well yeah that's the whole point, blue light during the day is perfectly fine, that's how your body knows it's time to get shit done, sitting in front a screen after sunset during X hours _will_ fuck up your rhythm and blocking blue light will moderately mitigate the issue. > else people in scandinavia would have severe problems with their circadian rhythms. They…

Even on a cloudy winter day the sun's luminocity is about 20 times higher than a very bright phone display. My point is that it is not reasonable to assume a strong physical reaction if the artifical light is so much weaker. Note I'm not denying that there isn't a small effect! But it is probably dwarved in comparison to a change in eating habits, anti stress methods like meditation, sports and so on. > It's 100% a f…

Campfires are not artificial light. This is about blue light after all. You need to show some data to back your statements besides hand-waving all existing studies in one swoop.

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#276

Post by saagarjha »

maxerickson wrote: post #250
errantspark wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just commenting to save what might be the saltiest comment I've ever seen on HN. I bet you're very fun at parties.

You can directly save comments by clicking on the timestamp. Then click "favorite".

Favorited comments show up publicly. You may not want to appear to exclusively enjoy barbed comments.

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#277

Post by reificator »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #178

> For instance, cancer progresses much faster in summer than in winter [edit: cancer progresses much faster in constant light: winter vs. summer is complicated] I don't know you, you make a very successful app that people really swear by. I have no qualms about people using f.lux, if you want to take your $4,600 laptop and $1,400 phone, on which people spent decades perfecting color reproduction, and you're paying $1…

> I have no qualms about people using f.lux, if you want to take your $4,600 laptop and $1,400 phone, on which people spent decades perfecting color reproduction, and you're paying $13/mo for Netflix to watch shows with multi-million dollar budgets and dedicated colorists, and you start watching Orange is the New Black and you make it yellow, that's your prerogative. So you don't need my opinions, so don't downvote just because you like f.lux and hate opinions.

You do know there are lots of toggles and shortcuts to tweak or disable flux when doing something color sensitive, right? There's even an explicit `Movie Mode` that does the best it can (not much tbh) without noticeably affecting color reproduction for the average viewer.

I disable flux when watching movies, playing games, or editing (color) images. It's not that hard.

That said, I don't run it as a substitute for medical advice. I run it because monitors are fucking bright and I enjoy working at night with dimmer lights that match my environment. I'd use an eink monitor at night if they were affordable, large enough, and software supported them better.

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#278

Post by PowerfulWizard »

ta0987 wrote: post #77
wheels wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, that's sounds interesting and is at least an avenue to chase down. Sadly, next to my stockpile of halogen bulbs, I also basically have a lifetime supply of LEDs and CFLs that didn't pass muster. Maybe someday I'll have a really big garage that needs lighting. ;-) The specific bulbs you linked to have a crazy high lumen rating, which appeals to me despite their high price. I have noticed that name brand (and pric…

There's also this company, but I haven't pulled the trigger myself because of the cost: https://www.waveformlighting.com/high-cri-led-strip-lights

Thanks, that's interesting -- I'll have to buy one of their bulbs to compare to my other LED bulbs.

Looks like the lowest cost might be the 100W COB LED ... It would need a bunch of supporting equipment but it might be possible to do it for around $2 per watt.

Edit: I guess the normal bulbs and the led tubes could also come in around $2/watt and they can take mains power so that might be an easier but physically larger route.

Re: Rooms can be as bright as the outdoors

#279

Post by avar »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #213
avar wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up at 66N (Northern Iceland), for what it's worth blackout curtains are rare to nonexistent there in my experience. Sometimes bedroom curtains don't even cover the whole window, and during parts of the year it's daylight outside 24/7. When I've traveled there with foreigners who grew up at more southern latitudes with year-round "normal" day/night cycles I've sometimes had to tape black trash bags to the bedro…

In Spain we have lots of problems and room for improvement in many issues, but one thing I can be proud of is that the vast majority of homes have blinds that close completely and get zero light in. I often wonder why it isn't like this elsewhere, and especially in northern places where it would be especially convenient (I get that it's possible to adapt, but wouldn't it be nicer to be able to sleep in any position?)…

I'm assuming you're talking about the exterior metal curtains common to Spanish houses (persiana con cajor exterior [1]).

Those are only incidentally to block out light, they're mainly for thermal management. You put them down in the middle of the day to keep hot air and direct sunlight out.

A system like that is completely unsuitable in places that get snow. If you installed it on a house in Iceland it would at best freeze solid, and more likely explode as snow slush made it into the joints and froze solid. You don't even need to go outside of Spain to see that, go up to Monachil in Granada and see that no house in the area uses that system.

Of course you could install blinds like that behind double-glazed glass, but at that point you can just buy normal blackout curtains. Since you don't need it for thermal management (any amount of external heat making into the house being a luxury) there's no point in installing it on every window in the house.

So then for practical purposes you're left with only installing blackout curtains in the bedroom, but if you live that far north you're going to need to just get used to sleeping in the light anyway. What are you going to do if you go on a camping trip where you sleep in a tent and forget your blackout eye mask, just not sleep?

1. https://www.google.com/search?q=persiana+con+cajor+exterior

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