Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings • Hacker News Board

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#271

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 1:07 AM UTC

geofft wrote: post #265

bendbro wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And they shouldn't be surprised if a company that explicitly embraces activist engineers and forswears sources of revenue incompatible with that activism, a company that says "We will talk about politics at the workplace and this is our particular form of politics," one day beats the pants off them. They should be surprised as it hasn't ever happened before. That's not to say that it won't or shouldn't happen, it j…

Didn't it happen with Google? Did they not build a more productive engineering department because they said "Bring your whole self to work, and bring your dog too" and not "We want your butt in a cubicle for 40 hours and this is just a job"? I suspect if a company says "Bring your whole self to work, and we're actually serious about it, only bother applying if you think you'll gel with the folks already here," they'l…

How are they “more productive” than the other tech behemoths?

I would argue that they are less productive seeing that after all these years they haven’t diversified from advertising - where 90% of their profit comes from - as compared to Apple or Microsoft or even Amazon.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#272

Post by umeshunni » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 1:08 AM UTC

VikingCoder wrote: post #92

tenpies wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google famously hired one of the activist organizers of Occupy Wallstreet: https://www.businessinsider.com/google-engineer-who-organize...

...and they hired someone who worked on Family Separation: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/miles-taylor-fa... Wouldn't that kind of negate your point?

When you have to quote Buzzfeed as your source, you're doing it wrong.

Here's the person in question - they're a white house staffer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/miles-t-65707671/

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#273

Post by sailfast » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 1:08 AM UTC

burtonator wrote: post #232

malvosenior wrote: post #5

I wonder if companies like Google and GitHub that actively courted activists are now regretting their decision. For a long time it was common knowledge that you would try to keep stuff like that out of the workplace. The past 10 years have been an about face to that strategy and now we're seeing more or less complete chaos internally at these previously pro-politics (some kinds of politics) workplaces. My guess is th…

Interviewed at Etsy about a year or two ago and the interviewer was asking me about politically charged topics. How I would handle workplace gender complaints. How they should handle racial diversity in the work place, etc. It was really clear I was giving wrong answers. I told them flat out that I think people should be judged by the quality of their character, not the color of their skin and that the company should…

I assume this was for a supervisory position or an HR position?

These aren’t really politically charged questions but rather questions about how to manage people and the issues that come with people. While the cause of the complaint may be politically charged, how one would handle the situation should be pretty by the book.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#274

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 1:09 AM UTC

bendbro wrote: post #258

geofft wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Google and GitHub built fantastic engineering departments with that decision, beating the pants off several companies that followed "common knowledge." It was (and still is) a cliche that you get better results by hiring like Google than by hiring like everyone used to hire. What they're now learning is that this decision is incompatible with certain forms of revenue like military or immigration-enforcement con…

> And they shouldn't be surprised if a company that explicitly embraces activist engineers and forswears sources of revenue incompatible with that activism, a company that says "We will talk about politics at the workplace and this is our particular form of politics," one day beats the pants off them. They should be surprised as it hasn't ever happened before. That's not to say that it won't or shouldn't happen, it j…

[deleted]

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#275

Post by lisper » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 1:09 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #270

lisper wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you remove infinite money and market dominance would it still work out in the end ? My guess is that it wouldn't. Google in the early days didn't have infinite money nor market dominance and it obviously worked out. Doing what they did is what got them from A to B.

And Apple, Amazon and Microsoft are nothing like that and two of the three are more profitable. Correlation is not causation.

I didn't say it was. But the GP asked:

> If you remove infinite money and market dominance would it still work out in the end ?

And the answer to that is clearly: yes. It would because it did.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#276

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 1:10 AM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #34

threeseed wrote: post #19

Nobody actively courted activists. It's more just than tech startups generally skew younger and newer generations want their companies to reflect their own values. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. And these companies are not in complete chaos. In fact apart from the James Damore incident there hasn't been any significant change in the company cultures.

> Nobody actively courted activists. Yes, actually they did actively court them. Here's one of many examples: https://diversity.google/ Younger generations are not politically homogeneous, Google picked a political position and pushed it hard.

Every company posts the same type of platitudes. Even one of the oldest, stodgiest companies in America.

https://jobs.gecareers.com/global/en/diversity-at-ge

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#277

Post by jorblumesea » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 1:11 AM UTC

geofft wrote: post #257

malvosenior wrote: post #5

I wonder if companies like Google and GitHub that actively courted activists are now regretting their decision. For a long time it was common knowledge that you would try to keep stuff like that out of the workplace. The past 10 years have been an about face to that strategy and now we're seeing more or less complete chaos internally at these previously pro-politics (some kinds of politics) workplaces. My guess is th…

Well, Google and GitHub built fantastic engineering departments with that decision, beating the pants off several companies that followed "common knowledge." It was (and still is) a cliche that you get better results by hiring like Google than by hiring like everyone used to hire. What they're now learning is that this decision is incompatible with certain forms of revenue like military or immigration-enforcement con…

Nah, there's a much simpler and more factually correct explanation. Google developed a natural monopoly using smart people. It then had very high hiring standards and higher salaries, and hired more very smart people in order to wrap its tentacles and create more competition crushing apps and features. It gave these smart people more freedom and money compared to what they were used to, and allowed them to freely innovate and task risks. This all happened before the political era we know today.

None of Google's success it had to do with identity politics. In many ways, you could argue Google was a-political for most of its life.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#278

Post by nemo44x » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 1:14 AM UTC

zarkov99 wrote: post #208

nemo44x wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're an engineer at Google, you've probably had a great technical education, you feel empowered because if Google would hire you, you can assume most anyone else would too; you probably feel smart because of this and in many ways you probably are a pretty smart person. You're very well paid and compensated and you know it. There are a lot of things here that not only give someone confidence but also conviction.…

That can't be the whole story. Google is not the only provider of high status jobs for nerds. Why aren't Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Netflix, Facebook also rife with this sort of activism?

Perhaps “don’t be evil” was ill advised? “Evil” is rather subjective in many ways and invites a culture that maybe doesn’t scale.

Maybe google was a tad myopic to the realities of what it takes to be a high growth public company with a single revenue generating product of any significance which they didn’t really create in the first place.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#279

Post by bArray » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 1:14 AM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #5

I wonder if companies like Google and GitHub that actively courted activists are now regretting their decision. For a long time it was common knowledge that you would try to keep stuff like that out of the workplace. The past 10 years have been an about face to that strategy and now we're seeing more or less complete chaos internally at these previously pro-politics (some kinds of politics) workplaces. My guess is th…

> I wonder if companies like Google and GitHub that actively

> courted activists are now regretting their decision.

I think it's fair to say that there are a large number of people who are very invested in the answer to this question, hence it will be difficult to get a serious unbiased answer. It's also quite politically hot.

> For a long time it was common knowledge that you would try

> to keep stuff like that out of the workplace.

Activists and unions have brought many a company and Country to its knees. Companies that stay away from politics (or any statements at all) seem to be doing better, but somebody like Google or GitHub have so much financial and structural clout that they can afford to make mistakes.

> My guess is there will certainly be a shift away from

> other companies trying to do this in the future.

> Rightfully so imho.

I agree, but it's hard to fully quantify. I guess the real point is that politically companies and Countries are split approximately 50/50 between two main parties and any polarizing position a company takes will likely upset roughly half of the people. I think the only way to maintain a proper diverse structure is to not take sides.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#280

Post by Aeolun » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 1:16 AM UTC

Sebguer wrote: post #235

zarkov99 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did being assertive and bringing your whole self to work work out for James Damore?

If you're saying his 'whole self' was 'women are inherently inferior to me' than I'd say it worked out as it should have.

Why should this opinion (just for the sake of argument assuming that it is, which I don’t think) have any effect on his employment status if there were otherwise no problems?