Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#271

Post by robert_foss » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:15 AM UTC

kmlx wrote: post #265

robert_foss wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a Berliner, on a personal level it would have been nice for me to have a Google office where they would have been. But I'm very happy about people standing up for their neighborhood and actually protesting. Having a Google office with >400 decidedly well-compensated people move in would very much change the neighborhood and not for the better. People fighting for their own local interests is what makes Berlin g…

> Having a Google office with >400 decidedly well-compensated people move in would very much change the neighborhood and not for the better. i don't understand this. so berlin would rather have poor citizens? how is that better for the city? and how would >400 "well-compensated" people affect the city in anything but a positive manner? has there been any sort of study as to how better wages affect a city?

There is a finite and already fully utilized number of domiciles. Adding 400 well off families would undoubtedly displace 400 not so well off families over time.

All while jacking up prices of apartments/food/services for everyone.

Where is the positive net effect for people here? The city&state will earn more tax revenue, but for the neighborhood there's nothing positive that's going to happen.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#272

Post by rf15 » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:17 AM UTC

iagooar wrote: post #168

It is great news for Berlin (and Brandenburg) as it will bring (big) money and attract talent. It might even attract people from Poland which is only an hour drive away and has a large pool of very talented and experienced engineers. So far besides maybe Siemens there wasn't too much industry here, which is more present in the south of the country. Being outside of the city center it won't contribute too much to gent…

No, this is bad news; it's a smaller version of the economic bomb/distortion of creating a google campus somewhere. This will be bad for everything from housing up to the general health of startup culture in Berlin. Desperate move by the economically starved Brandenburg. (and of course they won't suffer the consequences)

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#273

Post by odkamkfn » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:19 AM UTC

CathedralBorrow wrote: post #268

kmlx wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having a Google office with >400 decidedly well-compensated people move in would very much change the neighborhood and not for the better. i don't understand this. so berlin would rather have poor citizens? how is that better for the city? and how would >400 "well-compensated" people affect the city in anything but a positive manner? has there been any sort of study as to how better wages affect a city?

Do you reject the entire concept of gentrification or is there something about this particular instance you have trouble understanding?

Not the parent poster, but I certainly reject the concept of gentrification, or at least reject it as something to be avoided.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#274

Post by mstipetic » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:20 AM UTC

rf15 wrote: post #272

iagooar wrote: post #168

It is great news for Berlin (and Brandenburg) as it will bring (big) money and attract talent. It might even attract people from Poland which is only an hour drive away and has a large pool of very talented and experienced engineers. So far besides maybe Siemens there wasn't too much industry here, which is more present in the south of the country. Being outside of the city center it won't contribute too much to gent…

No, this is bad news; it's a smaller version of the economic bomb/distortion of creating a google campus somewhere. This will be bad for everything from housing up to the general health of startup culture in Berlin. Desperate move by the economically starved Brandenburg. (and of course they won't suffer the consequences)

The startup culture in Berlin is mediocre at best. I think bringing in proper high tech will be very valuable

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#275

Post by sobani » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:21 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #175

oska wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in Israel we don't have Teslas You might have missed this very recent news: > International car company Tesla published an ad seeking an operations manager in Israel, thus confirming that it plans to launch significant operations here. [1] [1] https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/tesla-to-launch...

Israel is so small that you can go anywhere on one charge.

Plus, I remember seeing a video years ago from some electric car visionary (didn't went very far) that argued Israel is basically an island. In the west there is a sea and in the north/east/south there are hostile nations/deserts that you don't want to drive to.

Compared to most other nations it's easy to bootstrap an electric driving infrastructure in Israel, because you don't have to do a continental wide rollout.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#276

Post by odkamkfn » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:21 AM UTC

robert_foss wrote: post #271

kmlx wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having a Google office with >400 decidedly well-compensated people move in would very much change the neighborhood and not for the better. i don't understand this. so berlin would rather have poor citizens? how is that better for the city? and how would >400 "well-compensated" people affect the city in anything but a positive manner? has there been any sort of study as to how better wages affect a city?

There is a finite and already fully utilized number of domiciles. Adding 400 well off families would undoubtedly displace 400 not so well off families over time. All while jacking up prices of apartments/food/services for everyone. Where is the positive net effect for people here? The city&state will earn more tax revenue, but for the neighborhood there's nothing positive that's going to happen.

You should look at actual gentrification studies - displacement is almost never as bad as predicted and usually ultimately everyone benefits.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#277

Post by myspy » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:24 AM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #99

choeger wrote: post #2

Please drop your inevitable BER jokes below so we can recylce them properly later.

Wait, so if I have this correct, the airport took ~6 years to construct and 9 years and counting to correct problems with its construction? Meaning that it would have been faster to tear the entire building down and rebuild it from scratch than it is taking to remedy the issues? How does that happen‽

I read that it's mainly a software problem, which would make sense why the delay is so long. Building and fixing problems with the building are done faster than fixing the software to manage that airport.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#278

Post by CathedralBorrow » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:25 AM UTC

odkamkfn wrote: post #273

CathedralBorrow wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you reject the entire concept of gentrification or is there something about this particular instance you have trouble understanding?

Not the parent poster, but I certainly reject the concept of gentrification, or at least reject it as something to be avoided.

That's fair. And you presumably get that other people can have a different opinion so you probably wouldn't be flabbergasted when someone wishes to avoid gentrification. That's what I'm curious about re: parent poster.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#279

Post by cyberpunk » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:30 AM UTC

ant6n wrote: post #126

cyberpunk wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oi, I live in spandau. It's very green...

You mean like Spandau bei Berlin?

Second largest district in Berlin with the lowest population .... From that you could say Spandauers are the most ... 'unique' of the Berliners.. Seriously though, the only negative thing (besides the constant bei jokes) is the food is pretty crap in Spandau -- that's improving though.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#280

Post by merb » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:31 AM UTC

jillesvangurp wrote: post #242

reallydontask wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (Berlin is s city state within the German federation). Is that a more literal translation of Bundesrepublik Deutschland? In English, Germany is normally referred to as Federal Republic of Germany?

Yes, Germany is a federation of states. I think there are about 16 of them. They have their own governments, elections, etc. A few of those are city states (Berlin, Hamburg,...). Here's a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_Germany The location Tesla picked is just outside of Berlin in the state of Brandenburg.

well it's a federation by name, unfortunatly most useful things aren't really as federalist as it should be.

that's why some things in germany are somewhat broken. some states want their autonomy, but this autonomy makes some things stupid, like our school politics (which are done by our states) and/or our public transport companies can be operated by states which sometimes just can't work (db is not)

germany actually has the same problem as the eu. states want to be as autonomous as possible, no matter the risks. and changes to this are seen as really bad, because people do not like "einheitsbrei".