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Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

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Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#271

Post by Dylan16807 »

deaddodo wrote: post #240
joshlemer wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not uncommon to leap frog versions in such cases. PHP went from 5 to 7, for instance.

They didn't "skip" php6. The primary goal of PHP6 was to implement full unicode support and drop mbstring. However, that took much longer than expected and multiple major features ended up getting backported to 5.3, 5.4 and 5.6; to the point that PHP 7 became the new feature version while PHP6 was worked on. They eventually gave up and PHP7 was released with unicode support built fairly deep, but basic string types a…

"giving up" sounds like "skipping" to me.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#272

Post by Dylan16807 »

cestith wrote: post #204
joshred wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A camel strikes me as unsophisticated yet perfect.

I understand that impression but I think it requires a different point of view. They are highly adapted in multiple quite complex ways. It's possible we're using divergent definitions of "sophisticated". I was using the one that means complex, developed, and refined for an environment rather than the definition of being tasteful, intellectually pleasing, and socially experienced.

That applies to every living thing ever, though. You're not focusing on the camel at all, or elevating it, unlike joshred's formulation.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#273

Post by dang »

lilSebastian wrote: post #10
bifrost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perl5 -> Perl6 has been highly contentious. Perl6 is basically a different language much to the chagrin of many Perl users. A lot of Perl users are entrenched in Perl5. FWIW: I'm unclear why people continue to use Perl at all, I moved on in 2011.

> FWIW: I'm unclear why people continue to use Perl at all Great language, large library on cpan, great eco system, people enjoy using it, they have a large code base that's run fine for decades. Choose 1 or more. > I moved on in 2011 You're right, it's all about you and what you do...

Hi, would you mind reviewing the site guidelines? I'm afraid your comments have already been breaking them quite a bit, and we ban accounts that do that.

The idea here is to post thoughtful and substantive comments, not aggressive ones, and to avoid the flamewar style, which degrades discussion quality and provokes worse from others.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#274

Post by tangental »

ergothus wrote: post #255
natch wrote: post #101

This is great news both for Perl and for Raku. I will probably bother to take a serious look at Raku now, sometime, if anything just for curiosity. Why not before? I have no good answer for that. But my main worry about it is that I suspect it has brought along with it the community's dysfunctional fascination with over-the-top cleverness and arcane constructs. I'll probably stick with Python and Perl 5 on an as-need…

I was a Perl dev a long time ago, and I think it made me a stronger coder. I still miss it, and I've not coded Perl for real in a decade. You're correct about "over-the-top cleverness and arcane constructs" being a problem, but it's also about using code as communication. We code in _languages_, and on one extreme is coding newpaper style - lowest common linguistic denominator. On a good day this is a common, underst…

Interesting perspective there. Worth noting that Larry Wall trained as a linguist and "often compares Perl to a natural language and explains his decisions in Perl's design with linguistic rationale" [0]

> On a good day this is nuanced yet clear and informative, on a bad day it is James Joyce.

So true. I think Perl golf could be Samuel Beckett.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Wall

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#275

Post by weff_ »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #228
weff_ wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've posted above, I'm a bit confused by CPU-bound work being processed in a scripting language. If you're planning on doing intense CPU-bound work, maybe use a lower-level language? I'm not saying abandon Python: you can extend Python with C or just use IPC to transfer data between a Python front-end and a computation back-end.

I totally you feel you, I guess I thought your question was substantially more surface level than it was. My apologies. I'm personally with you. I also don't tend to think object boxing is really the performance bottleneck for most applications, and if/when it is, likely the other requirements should've already ruled out using one (a scripting language). It's like writing Nifs for Elixir, yeah sure you _can_, they ha…

> the right tool for the job!

Hear, hear!

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#276

Post by weff_ »

lliamander wrote: post #256
weff_ wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ovid2 said Perl6 has a good concurrency model lliamander replied that Elixir does too and it's worth a look To that, 7thaccount replied that Perl6 and Elixir fill different niches. So far, it seems Perl6 fills a niche that requires scripting and first-class concurrency. My question then is: what is this niche that requires very solid concurrency but also scripting. In other words, what does Perl6 have in terms of con…

A fair question. I don't know of many instances where scripting and concurrency would be needed in the same application. But if you wanted to use single language both for scripting tasks and applications that require concurrency, then Raku or Elixir would work. One instance I can actually think of, that would be specific to Erlang/Elixir, is if you have a long running service that you sometimes run batch jobs against…

Is that like the relationship between C# and PowerShell?

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#277

Post by lliamander »

weff_ wrote: post #276
lliamander wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fair question. I don't know of many instances where scripting and concurrency would be needed in the same application. But if you wanted to use single language both for scripting tasks and applications that require concurrency, then Raku or Elixir would work. One instance I can actually think of, that would be specific to Erlang/Elixir, is if you have a long running service that you sometimes run batch jobs against…

Is that like the relationship between C# and PowerShell?

I think so, at least in some ways. I've shipped a project using PowerShell to script Windows Server/Hyper-V, and it was a pretty pleasant experience. Having a scripting language that not only does typical scripting stuff (wrangling text, etc.) and understands your application's objects is excellent.

Some differences:

* You can actually write your whole application in Elixir, whereas I could not see doing that with PowerShell

* In Erlang/Elixir, instead of objects you have processes. Think of your application as a microservice architecture on steroids, using the Erlang RPC protocol as a means for inter-process communication.

Because each process just sends and receives messages, your script can just send messages to any of the processes that make up your application, as if they were your own service. All you have to do is connect to the remote application using the Erlang Distribution Protocol (to connect different runtimes over the network).

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#278

Post by earenndil »

edflsafoiewq wrote: post #33

From what I could tell, Raku appears to be from Rakudo, the Perl 6 compiler, which is a shortened form of rakuda-dou (="way of the camel" in Japanese). Rakudo also means "paradise". The "raku" from "way of the camel" means "camel", while the "raku" from "paradise" means "fun" or "enjoyable" (or "music"). Incidentally, it also happens to sound similar to "roku" (="six").

Meanwhile, in hebrew, it means spoiled or decayed. :)

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#279

Post by tangental »

j9461701 wrote: post #188
pmoriarty wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How familiar are you with Perl, and how much have you used it? Most of the anti-Perl comments I've heard have been from people who really didn't know it very well, if at all. Some of them might have glanced at some Perl code and saw a dense regex and dismissed it as "line noise". Well, yeah, if you don't know regexes you would be forgiven for thinking it was line noise, but if you did know regexes it should look no m…

>How familiar are you with Perl, and how much have you used it? It's what my company's entire code base is written in. So every hour of every work day for the past 6 months. >To me it looks really no uglier than any other mainstream language, and one could easily make the argument that any other mainstream language you care to name is uglier in some of its own ways. It's no one thing, but a bunch of little things tha…

> while () { ($h{$_}++ == 1) && push (@outputarray, $_); };

We use Perl::Critic [0] to deal with issues like that. It has enabled us to develop a very consistent style, and helps new devs adopt to it quite quickly.

[0] https://metacpan.org/pod/Perl::Critic

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#280

Post by girvo »

WorldMaker wrote: post #155
RussianCow wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And same with ECMAScript 3 to 5.

There was an ECMAScript 4, it just wasn't adopted by browsers. (It was semi-adopted for ActionScript 3.)

I thought the relationship went the other way, that AS 3 was going to be standardised as ECMAScript 4? Not that it matters, I’m likely remembering incorrectly!
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