Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you want to buy a physical medium then CDs are the obvious option because objectively they are superior to vinyls in every aspects and they can also come with nice booklets. I think that the hip-value of vinyls is extremely important. I write that as someone who had no choice but use vinyls and tapes until I got a CD player...
CDs are far from objectively superior, considering that there are many CDs which are completely sealed but suffering from disk rot due to poor quality control rendering them completely useless. A lot of older CD-based game systems are going through this problem where they're becoming unplayable despite no wear or tear. The best of both worlds in my opinion is a vinyl + code for a digital copy, which seems to be the d…
Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986
271–280 of 410 posts
Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986
#272Is anyone working on a reasonably priced turntable to play vinyl discs without degrading them? In the mid '80s, Finial Technology announced such a turntable, and had a working unit at CES in 1986. It had a stylus that contained laser interferometers that could very accurately and precisely measure the distance from the stylus to the grove walls. It kept the stylus near, but not touching, the groove, getting the audio…
If only there were a durable music format that had absolute perfect quality, didn't need special handling, no DRM, no compression artifacts, was stereo, and handled frequencies all the way down and all the way up to where humans can hear. Oh, the CD!
However, one note about CD quality — it may not be as perfect as you think! A peer-reviewed meta-analysis has shown that humans can hear the difference between CD quality (44khz/16bit) and “high-res audio” recordings (e.g. 192khz/24bit)! The perceptual difference is relatively small, but measurable (assuming high quality speakers and signal chain):
https://phys.org/news/2016-06-people-difference-high-resolut...
I doubt 44khz sampling rate is a problem, but fixed point 16 bits per sample does seem fairly constraining, given how our perception of linear audio loudness corresponds to exponential increases in signal strength.
Also, if anyone tries to test it yourself, beware that it is actually quite hard to do so properly:
1. Any listening tests in a web browser will just resample to CD quality automatically anyway, because they just play into your OS’s shared audio mixing system, which mixes all audio sources before they reach your DAC, which usually resamples them all to CD quality in this process.
2. The above point applies to ANY app that doesn’t take exclusive control over your PC’s audio output capability, and even then there are many pitfalls where you can almost accidentally trigger a default CD quality resampling stage somewhere in the pipeline.
3. Be careful to ensure the audio file you’re playing wasn’t just a regular CD quality file that was simply upsampled to 192/24 or whatever high res rate it claims to be. Sadly, this happens a lot. Your audio file MUST be recorded AND mastered (edited) in the studio at every stage using high res formats.
4. Make sure your audio signal path doesn’t have any components introducing dynamic range (loudness) compression (many default to this, these days), or any other resampling, equalization, etc. stages.
5. Your DAC may not even support anything higher than 44/16 data streams, so resampling may be inevitable!
6. Make sure you played the audio samples on extremely high quality speakers (often costing many thousands of dollars, making this whole point moot/irrelevant for most people anyway). The vast majority of consumer headphones and speakers can’t render a low vs high bitrate MP3 very differently, let alone the subtle differences we’re talking about here.
Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
This seems kind of counterproductive for the (I think) vinyl target group. If I listen to vinyl, I want the kinda retro feeling "real" analog audio signal, else I'd just get a CD or online download. A mid-range stylus is completly sufficient for a great experience without any noticable noise and next to no real wear on the records.
I'd add that the ritual around vinyl (i.e. manually adjusting tone arm, touching a vinyl and placing it on the platter, etc) is the part that people like the most, not the actual sound. I don't think anyone would be able to discern a new vinyl from a cd in a blind test.
A major reason is that you can't really get away with the crappy loudness war style mastering on vinyl. Just because of that they sound way better than most digital masters.
Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986
#274Is anyone working on a reasonably priced turntable to play vinyl discs without degrading them? In the mid '80s, Finial Technology announced such a turntable, and had a working unit at CES in 1986. It had a stylus that contained laser interferometers that could very accurately and precisely measure the distance from the stylus to the grove walls. It kept the stylus near, but not touching, the groove, getting the audio…
My very limited understanding after talking to someone who was interested in this stuff, is that people are concerned with quantizing of the signal, which will happen with that laser solution. I’ve heard this is why audiophiles also use magnetic tape. To be clear I heard this second hand and am not directly familiar.
Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd add that the ritual around vinyl (i.e. manually adjusting tone arm, touching a vinyl and placing it on the platter, etc) is the part that people like the most, not the actual sound. I don't think anyone would be able to discern a new vinyl from a cd in a blind test.
Strongly disagree. A major reason is that you can't really get away with the crappy loudness war style mastering on vinyl. Just because of that they sound way better than most digital masters.
Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
Alternate viewpoint. Vinyl is for people born before CDs or digital music was a thing. So maybe hipsters jumped in for a good ol chunk of nostalgia. So? Broad stroke statements like "vinyl" sounds better are just as incorrect as "digital sounds better". A hi end turntable playing vinyl that is clean and well cared for is surprisingly difficult to tell apart from digital audio. It doesn't snap crackle pop if its clean…
"Objectively inferior ability to reproduce sounds" is my statement. CD's are an objectively superior way to encode sound in every measurable way. > A hi end turntable playing vinyl that is clean and well cared for is surprisingly difficult to tell apart from digital audio. It doesn't snap crackle pop if its clean and cared for. I agree, and I'm sure if someone spends the same amount on a loss-less audio setup (or eve…
Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand that, but old cars are a hobby of a limited number of people, not of "Joe Average". This would be like old cars out-selling new ones.
In this analogy 'new cars' (CDs) have already largely been antiquated by the new technology of personal teleportation (audio files distributed over networks.) The market for new cars still exists because some people don't like teleportation. Some people worry that teleportation recreates you imperfectly on the other side and thus prefer a new car. But that demographic is shrinking. Teleportation is simply so conviene…
Teleportation could recreate me perfectly, imperfectly, or better than perfectly - the issue is what happens to the original me. Rumor has it that after scanning your body the origin portal drops you into a trash compactor.
Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you really just want a FLAC rip of a CD to play over a media center, then consider simply downloading the FLAC rip from a filesharing community, but then buying the vinyl release for the sake of owning the physical artifact. That way, you both get high-quality digital audio and you financially support the artist, but the vinyl release has larger artwork and is more satisfying as a collector item.
I buy the music, because I want to support the artists. I buy the CD-format, because in theory, I can do that anonymously (cash at the store). I don't buy the vinyl, because I explicitly want the digital format (see my reply to another comment on this thread as to why). I rip the CD, because, well, my phone doesn't have a CD-drive (wow, that would be weird ...). At this point... I'd actually throw away the CD, becaus…
How about a floppy drive? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT1l8Dcjb1Y
Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986
#279CDs are dying, but they are mostly being killed by streaming services, not by vinyl. Digital music formats are still the king by far. The vast majority of people don't even care that their streamed music is lossy and they lose out on high frequencies that their ears can't hear and their headphones can't reproduce. Vinyl appeals to hipsters and dumb audiophiles (there are smart audiophiles, but they aren't buying viny…
I'm a smart audiophile. I listen to digital sources. But I like vinyl because I like the aesthetics of it. It doesn't sound better. I'm also 56 years old so I grew up with vinyl. There's nothing "hip" about me.
Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your conception of vinyl buyers is very negative. I think there's another category of people that buy vinyl. If you really love an album and want to support the artist you can purchase the vinyl version of the album. Apart from supporting the artist you often get additional treats like a nice booklet with the lyrics or additional art/imagery. I really think there's extra value in buying vinyl apart from it being hip.
If you want to buy a physical medium then CDs are the obvious option because objectively they are superior to vinyls in every aspects and they can also come with nice booklets. I think that the hip-value of vinyls is extremely important. I write that as someone who had no choice but use vinyls and tapes until I got a CD player...
ps. The copy of “Von” by “Sigur Rós” I bought recently even came with extra CD instead of a download code.