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Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

nationalgeographic.com

271–280 of 342 posts

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#271

There’s no surprise here is there? We, as a society, poison pretty much everything as a standard part of the agricultural process. The outcome -the goal - of that is of course, death of vast numbers of insects. Mission accomplished. It’s a success story, strangely. The only thing that seems weird to me is how society was so easily convinced that soaking all our food in poison is OK and not a problem all good thumbs u…

>"that's really weird " Not really, given that our use of pesticides allows us to feed billions of people worldwide at low cost. Rates of hunger in the developed world are almost non-existent and globally hunger rates are as low as they've ever been and continue to plummet. Pesticide treated food is safe and healthy too, so we're feeding the world with safe and healthy food. This is a great thing . It's not surprisin…

Thereby causing global climate disruption, likely ultimately causing billions to starve.

Nice work.

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#272

From the article: “This is the second Silent Spring. Neonics are like a new DDT, except they are a thousand times more toxic to bees than DDT was,” Klein says in an interview." Rachel Carson's conclusions in "Silent Spring" were never proven to be correct - nonetheless DDT was restricted by EPA (by bureaucratic mandate rather than by reference to convincing scientific proof). DDT should be brought back in the USA.

DDT was, and is, toxic to many other animals, notably birds, and very long-lasting in ecosystems.

Anyway it doesn't work on ag pests anymore. They evolved to tolerate it. Birds didn't.

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#273

Slightly tangential, but I want to point out that there's a way forward without pesticides and without economic disaster: We can switch to a "horticultural" mode of civilization. The idea is that we use applied ecology to create curated ecosystems that have a high proportion of plants that are agriculturally productive. (Not to be mysterious, I'm talking about Permaculture et. al. but that term seems to upset a few p…

the agriculture shills keep pushing this notion that their way of growing with chemicals is the the most productive way when I've yet to see a study that indicates that any of what they've done has increased crop yields.

What are you talking about?

Agricultural productivity has increased IMMENSELY.

In 1870, over 50% of the US workforce worked in agriculture. Today, despite exporting much of what we grow, that number is well under 2%.

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#274
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"that's really weird " Not really, given that our use of pesticides allows us to feed billions of people worldwide at low cost. Rates of hunger in the developed world are almost non-existent and globally hunger rates are as low as they've ever been and continue to plummet. Pesticide treated food is safe and healthy too, so we're feeding the world with safe and healthy food. This is a great thing . It's not surprisin…

Thereby causing global climate disruption, likely ultimately causing billions to starve. Nice work.

We'll be fine. We already have the tool to save the climate (nuclear), just need to actually use it.

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#275
post #56
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did demand X though. The supermarkets had both tasteless strawberries and organic ones and we made our choice. Many supermarkets still have organic ones and we still pick the cheaper, larger, less tasty one.

Except, they don’t actually give you a way to judge taste. With apples people learn of better tasting variety, but strawberries are unlabeled.

I don't do this, but I do notice that in super markets lots of people do try the fruit before they it. So there are ways of making sure you get good fruit.

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#276

Slightly tangential, but I want to point out that there's a way forward without pesticides and without economic disaster: We can switch to a "horticultural" mode of civilization. The idea is that we use applied ecology to create curated ecosystems that have a high proportion of plants that are agriculturally productive. (Not to be mysterious, I'm talking about Permaculture et. al. but that term seems to upset a few p…

This would require people to think and be responsible, so it will never happen.

You're assuming it will be left to market dynamics. I don't think that's a given.

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern science has increased yield for corn by a factor of 8: https://images.app.goo.gl/QfcFrk4nvu7uw6M67 . I’m only 35 and it’s doubled in my lifetime.

Except you're not accounting for the nutritional density [0] per yield being reduced and also the fact that the majority of cash crop goes to feeding livestock. [0] https://rodaleinstitute.org/why-organic/issues-and-prioritie...

Why does he have to account for livestock? That has nothing to do with the argument he's responding to.

Your other argument isn't especially persuasive, either. Statistically, is vitamin deficiency a serious public health problem in America? Whatever "protein, calcium, phosphorus, iron, riboflavin, and vitamin C" reduction there has been in corn over the last 50 years, it's extremely unlikely to have offset a factor of 8 increase in productivity.

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#278
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Canada it's $1k/acre and sometimes even lower. But for your plan to have maximum effect you'd have to do some research what land would be best suited because of biodiversity and climate.

Where is this 1k/acre land in Canada? Is it in a place where you can do these following things? a) build a house b) buy it an acre at a time c) grow a reasonable crop d) be within reasonable distance to a city and the markets thereof In Canada particularly, climate is an issue for growing crops. Wheat takes 100 days to mature. The growing season in the prairies is 110 days. If the climate drops 1 degree Celcius you l…

I think the OP wanted to return the land to its' natural state, not farm it or build on it

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#279
Studies always tout honeybee population decline.

First, honeybees (apis mellifera) are non-native to North America.

As beekeeping history buff (my appeal to auth), the decline in my (unpopular) opinion is little to do with pesticides. It has to do with change on how bees are over-wintered and propagated, and with insufficient knowledge of beekeeping.

Current practice is to "split" hives after last harvest, and then over-winter them, cutting their strength in half. Prior to the 1960s, the practice was to "combine" the hives after harvest, and then over-winter them, doubling their strength.

This is significant, as splitting hives reduces the hive chances to survive significantly. Less workers, less collection for the remainder of the season, less housekeeping, less chances to resist pests & ilnesses, less heat generation during winter.

The reason for splitting is the promise of nearly doubling the hives in just one year.

Unfortunately the beekeeping expertise curve is very left-skew of the median. Most have less than 3 hives, less than 3 years of expertise. This additionally reduces the chances of the split, and now weakened hives' survival. Of course, when spring comes and they hives are found dead, no one will admit to killing them. It must have been the pesticides.

Anecdotally, from beek meetings some keepers are going "all natural" with no assistance to the hive from small hive beetle, wax moth, varroa & trachea mites, etc. Almost all those hives are now dead. But, not only dead also potentially re- and infecting other beeks' hives despite their best efforts. This is identical to the same thinking as anti-vaxers.

Sure; I know first hand pesticides can kill entire hives. But, in my opinion it is not the primary reason.

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#280

Studies always tout honeybee population decline. First, honeybees (apis mellifera) are non-native to North America. As beekeeping history buff (my appeal to auth), the decline in my (unpopular) opinion is little to do with pesticides. It has to do with change on how bees are over-wintered and propagated, and with insufficient knowledge of beekeeping. Current practice is to "split" hives after last harvest, and then o…

The article points out that bees are only used as a proxy for all insects and that second-order effects like significant declines in insect-eating birds align with neonic usage.

Your points about bees may be true, but I think they talk about bees specifically because popular culture cares about bees as pollinators and doesn't harbor much sympathy for other insects.

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