Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#271

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 10:44 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #101

CesareBorgia wrote: post #93

This isn't the first time that the CA regulator (BPPE) has surprised code schools with cease-and-desist letters :) That said, we (App Academy) found that the BPPE was a mostly accommodating regulator that worked with us to come into compliance. We did face a couple challenges that will likely still exist today: 1) BPPE won't give approval to operate until the whole application process is completed. This means that La…

I can't say much publicly, except to say that nearly everything you just said is wrong.

[deleted]

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#272

Post by smallnamespace » Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 10:47 PM UTC

mring33621 wrote: post #194

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the government makes you waste a a day filling out paperwork to prove that your dog food doesn’t contain human remains, don’t blame the regulators. Blame the guy before you who made a buck by vertically integrating his cannery and his morgue.

A long time ago, I worked in defense. Our design engineers had to fill out government paperwork (many pages) that provided an estimate for how long the rest of the government paperwork would take.

Was it a first order estimate or did it include the time it took to fill itself out?

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#273

Post by 1123581321 » Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 10:48 PM UTC

acjohnson55 wrote: post #252

austenallred wrote: post #11

It’s true. Our counsel informed us that we didn’t need to register. Counsel was wrong. Now we have new counsel :) We’ve submitted all the paperwork and have worked closely with California. This all happened a long time ago. I’m not sure what the right level of regulation is (it’s hard taking care of 50 states at once - one state registration was 2,277 pages and weighed 25 pounds https://twitter.com/austen/status/1153…

So much for "states-as-laboratories" [1]. There may be some usefulness in that concept, but without eventually harmonization of best practices, it can also be incredibly wasteful and create harmful barriers to entry. [1] https://scholar.valpo.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1888&c...

This is actually a good case for the concept as some states will improve their processes to better work with educators like Lambda and the learnings will spread to many of the other states over time. The only way for their to have been a unified process for paperwork, previously, would have been to require too much and to implement a process to prevent states from proactively updating their process quickly enough to be helpful.

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#274

Post by gamblor956 » Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 10:50 PM UTC

crazypyro wrote: post #61

jedberg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California is known for overbearing compliance, but it isn't known for stifling innovation because of it. Our State recognizes that innovation is its lifeblood. I'm not too worried about them stifling innovation. For one, it was stated elsewhere that they are working with Lambda school to get them certified, and for two, I think the fact that most of the self-driving car companies are working here now is a perfect ex…

I don't see how California's tech innovation is proof that regulation isn't stifling innovation in other, tangentially related at best, sectors. I would also argue CA regulations stifle a lot more industries than just education.

California is the world's 5th biggest economy. We lead the nation or are close to the top in every major industry except finance.

What industries do you think are being stymied by regulation in CA?

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#275

Post by gamblor956 » Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 10:52 PM UTC

farisjarrah wrote: post #23

jedberg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what, trying to protect people from being swindled by people claiming to give an education but not? I for one am happy that my state requires people claiming to run schools to go through some sort of vetting process.

Agreed. Do we really need more ITT Tech's or Trump Universities? I think not.

Back in the day ITT Tech provided valuable vocational skills to thousands of students seeking a vocational education.

It was only in last decade that it became a mockery of what it used to be.

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#276

Post by vkou » Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

aeorgnoieang wrote: post #149

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the government makes you waste a a day filling out paperwork to prove that your dog food doesn’t contain human remains, don’t blame the regulators. Blame the guy before you who made a buck by vertically integrating his cannery and his morgue.

Nah, blame the regulators too for thinking that filling out paperwork is likely to meaningfully dissuade someone from using human remains to make dog food. It was probably sufficient to explain to that one guy why that was bad.

Would you prefer that regulators would sanction bad behaviour and throw people in jail post-facto, make-up-the-rules-as-they-go-along instead?

Because that's the most palatable alternative.

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#277

Post by jammygit » Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 10:57 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #11

It’s true. Our counsel informed us that we didn’t need to register. Counsel was wrong. Now we have new counsel :) We’ve submitted all the paperwork and have worked closely with California. This all happened a long time ago. I’m not sure what the right level of regulation is (it’s hard taking care of 50 states at once - one state registration was 2,277 pages and weighed 25 pounds https://twitter.com/austen/status/1153…

What do you actually do to find out what the regulations for 50 states are and how to comply? Just hire experts?

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#278

Post by vkou » Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 10:58 PM UTC

pnw_hazor wrote: post #201

bufferoverflow wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sue your old counsel? They will probably settle.

Giving advice that turned out to be wrong is a long way from proving legal malpractice.

No, but if you are a law firm with a reputation for giving wrong legal advice, you're going to have a harder time getting customers.

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#279

Post by mc32 » Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 11:06 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #262

Chris2048 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. When counsel tell you something is legal, and it isn't, there's little subjectivity.

> When counsel tell you something is legal, and it isn't, there's little subjectivity. Stating that a thing is or is not legal is making a claim about the opinion other humans in positions of authority (whose specific identity is unknown) will have on a similar question in the future. There is always subjectivity in it, since you are literally predicting someone else's subjective opinion. The objectivity of law is a…

But that’s not entirely a bad thing. It allows for things to change over time. It allows for example for states to crack down on vaccine exemptions and allows for taxation and regulation of interstate commerce, etc.

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#280

Post by digitaltrees » Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 11:18 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #49

austenallred wrote: post #11

It’s true. Our counsel informed us that we didn’t need to register. Counsel was wrong. Now we have new counsel :) We’ve submitted all the paperwork and have worked closely with California. This all happened a long time ago. I’m not sure what the right level of regulation is (it’s hard taking care of 50 states at once - one state registration was 2,277 pages and weighed 25 pounds https://twitter.com/austen/status/1153…

25 lbs of paperwork to register an online school? Sounds less about protecting students and more towards protecting incumbents and cronies.

Have you ever tried to draft regulation? Even tried to capture everything that could possibly go wrong or be harmful, even unexpectedly and inadvertently? All while knowing that everything you forget will be a “loophole” for the thousands or millions of people coming under the regulations you drafted in the future. And worse if you leave loopholes people will be hurt and then blame the very government trying to create protections in the first place? It’s easy to throw stones at the work of someone else, but this completely emerges to withstand a barrage of stones being thrown.