America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births • Hacker News Board

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#271

Post by Fomite » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 6:29 AM UTC

asveikau wrote: post #203

mrep wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Museums, zoos, aquariums I don't know about you, but those are things I'd go to at most once a year so taking the train/driving downtown for those rare events wasn't a big deal for me growing up. > free events for kids, concerts just for babies, more details? > parks My friends and I used to play basketball, american football, and ultimate frisbee all the time growing up. Now I live downtown and the parks I walk pa…

> driving downtown This is your problem. In a city you don't need to put yourself and your family in a deadly metallic stress machine to get places. And as a result you will feel happier and more connected. Even in a city I am sometimes very shocked at what we put ourselves through to use a car. People constantly honking and flicking each other off with various insults and me on the sidewalk wishing they'd all calm d…

When I lived in a city I drove so little I frequently forgot where I parked my car.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#272

Post by Karrot_Kream » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 6:42 AM UTC

eitally wrote: post #226

stouset wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a suburb and was bored shitless. I had one friend that lived within walking distance, and everyone else was too far away to get to without a car, which meant that I didn't get to see my friends unless it was convenient for one of my two parents (who both held full-time jobs). Cycling anywhere outside of the local neighborhood was out of the question, since the roads connecting neighborhoods were full of…

There is an alternative. Don't live in a big city! There are plenty of 2nd & 3rd tier cities where you can get both a house and land for a reasonable price and still have good schools and a vibrant cultural environment. Of course you won't have some things (international airport, professional sports teams, top rate museums), but you'll make up for it in "free" QoL for your family. I grew up in a city of 75,000, in a…

For a lot of people, the city is automatically Manhattan or downtown Chicago. They can't fathom anything but that or a suburb, and to be fair America is very bad at making anything else.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#273

Post by jacobolus » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 6:45 AM UTC

jakobegger wrote: post #231

tathougies wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So my moms parents had three children and my dads five. So not huge families but large. They grew up in a city in a third world country and frankly their childhood was a lot more dangerous than your imagined paranoia. Also your ideas of children are way off. We have a seven month old and we read to her, take her to the library, go to space talks, etc. Actually we do a lot more intellectual stuff now. My wife has take…

> Parents who put their kids in front of the TV are lazy. Maybe when your kid is a bit older you'll understand the appeal of turning on the TV just to have an hour to clean up, do a bit of laundry, and prepare dinner...

There is great appeal for sure, but the better long-term solution is to get the kids helping with cleanup, laundry, and dinner prep, even from an age where they can’t do anything yet.

You might be surprised how interested they are in helping out.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#274

Post by alltakendamned » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 6:54 AM UTC

notzuck wrote: post #230

jinushaun wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m raising a child in NYC right now. What is this dystopia you are describing? It’s the opposite of my personal experience. NYC is such a kid friendly place to raise kids: Museums, zoos, aquariums, free events for kids, concerts just for babies, parks, swimming pools, little league, soccer league, skate parks, etc… we have it all. I can’t fathom how people raise kids in the suburbs. They must be so bored… You have a…

We both earn large professional salaries but decided to go to the suburbs for kids. We have 2 beaches within 20 minutes of us, we have parks, cinemas, out door water parks, outdoor pools, skate parks plus half an acre of garden and a big house where the kids can have a music room, a playroom, separate room for computer games and we get a very nice home office. I don't know why anyone would want to stay in the cramped…

so forgive my ignorance as this might be a cultural difference, but why have separate rooms for each play function?

I mean, isn't a play room and a computer game room and even a music room just overlapping ?

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#275

Post by scarejunba » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 7:06 AM UTC

PKop wrote: post #136

magduf wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need "low rise cohousing communities" to have families in cities. Japanese cities are extremely dense, yet people raise families there just fine. On my trip to Japan, I was really struck by how many children I saw in the middles of cities (moreso in some districts than others, of course), whereas I never see children in downtown American cities. Of course, Japanese cities don't have enormous parking lots, e…

Because they have a high trust, homogenous culture. How many people feel comfortable taking children on public transportation or allowing to roam the middle of cities? Culture matters, and quite frankly Japanese culture is different.

People hate BART and I see absolute bloody armies of kids on it often enough that I recall them.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#276

Post by bad_user » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 7:14 AM UTC

silencio wrote: post #93

jacobolus wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried being a kid or raising a kid in the city? This description does not match my experience or my general impressions of other people’s experiences at all. Indeed, car-intermediated everything and complete dependence on parents is a much better description of suburban life for children than city life. I grew up in one of the most pleasant and active suburbs in the US, in a little college town, and it was s…

I am raising a 2.5 year old in SF and my experience is very similar to yours. We're looking at moving out to the East Bay soon to be closer to my parents, but SF - outside of housing - is not a bad place to be raising a child. So I have to tell my kid to ignore a syringe on the ground at a muni stop once in a while - like dangers don't also exist in suburban and rural areas - but poop barely phases us... it's like so…

> but SF - outside of housing - is not a bad place to be raising a child

You can't discount housing, because it's what gets you to live in a really small space, possibly in a dangerous neighborhood and with so much street noise that you can't sleep with your window open.

So yes, if you can't afford a nice place with plenty of room in a nice neighborhood, then SF is a terrible place to be raising a child.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#277

Post by scarejunba » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 7:15 AM UTC

clay_the_ripper wrote: post #87

madhadron wrote: post #14

I look at it a little differently. The urban cores in the USA are actively hostile places for anyone to be. You step outside your door...into an empty hallway of doors. You take an elevator or stairs down to a place with a few mailboxes, then step outside. Outside, you have a narrow strip of concrete, possibly with a few trees, that you are allowed to inhabit. Beyond it is as asphalt with two ton steel contraptions w…

I currently live in SF and could not imagine having kids here. I’m sure some people do, and have a great time. But it’s not a life that I would want, nor would I want for my kids. This narrative captures pretty accurately why I would not want to raise kids in this city. Now, some other city? Maybe. Probably in Europe. US cities though are just hard places to be. Hard people. Aggressive homelessness. Dirty. Unfriendly…

I know hundred-millionaires raising kids in San Francisco and Oakland. They, of all people, have a choice of where they could raise their kids. And they do it in the cities.

When I was a kid I grew up in a rural area, an urban area, then a rural area, then an urban area. They were both super cool, but I had more friends I could hang out with in the latter and so my life was automatically better.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#278

Post by rimliu » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 7:17 AM UTC

madhadron wrote: post #14

I look at it a little differently. The urban cores in the USA are actively hostile places for anyone to be. You step outside your door...into an empty hallway of doors. You take an elevator or stairs down to a place with a few mailboxes, then step outside. Outside, you have a narrow strip of concrete, possibly with a few trees, that you are allowed to inhabit. Beyond it is as asphalt with two ton steel contraptions w…

90% of everything is the attitude.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#279

Post by scarejunba » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 7:18 AM UTC

sullyx wrote: post #191

zachsnow wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like hyperbole. Instead of saying you are wrong objectively, I’ll say instead that my subjective experience of “the city” is in stark contrast to this. Green spaces and the ocean abound. My neighbors are wonderful people. The businesses around me are owned and operated by local people. I can’t walk down the block without running into good folks with smiles on their faces. I try to bring the same energy to…

Where do you live?

My life in Glen Park is quite similar. Recently, I've taken to running to BART for a warm up before I take it to the Equinox and one of the first times I did, a neighbour stopped to ask me if I was in a hurry and if he could give me a lift. I accepted, obviously, and we chatted.

Honestly, most of SF is rather friendly and nice. I like it. First moved here 6 years ago.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#280

Post by osdiab » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 7:25 AM UTC

ocschwar wrote: post #100

A major problem in American cities is what's called "contraception zoning." It's a de facto and sometimes de jure ban on large (as in 4 or more bedroom) apartments.

Similarly cities often have overly restrictive minimum housing sizes as well, often induced by low-density zoning, parking requirements, or other laws. That makes economical, tiny apartments for singles/childless couples scarce; so naturally you end up doing what me and almost all my friends in SF do, which is rent out a much larger apartment than you need (3+ bedrooms), probably under rent control because only old buildings are built that way and that's what SF rent control law applies to, and split it between a bunch of roommates.

This constricts the larger apartment housing stock for families, and especially if you're living in the same room as someone else, probably makes your ability to cultivate a romantic relationship harder, too.

This adds up to - American cities ban units both large and small that allow a city to function properly; they simultaneously tend to dramatically underbuild housing altogether for the demand to live in these cities; and then we wonder why, given how prohibitively expensive it is to live in an American city, that they tend to have serious social problems and only the most tolerant/flexible to stressful situations—i.e. the most privileged—can afford and profit from living in them.

One thing I'm struck by living in Tokyo recently, aside seeing way more children than I ever do in SF (against all odds given the low birth rates), is that you can get a small studio for not much money - you'd be lucky to find one in SF within 30 minutes of the city for less than $2,500, but you can get one 15-20 mins from the hottest neighborhoods in Tokyo for like $500-$700. They'll be much smaller, but the lifestyle is also more space-efficient, so I find it to work for my needs as a 27 year old.