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Google Is Eating Our Mail

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Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#271

Post by luckylion »

benou wrote: post #231
mcsb4 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's simply not true we have no incentive to fix this I just happen to have set up an email server and encountered the same problems with Google as described in the article. I own the IP since quite some time, it is not on any black list, reverse DNS is set up etc. but Google rejects email as spam. And this even happens when the gmail account has added the sender in his address book and has send the first email to…

> Use your AI to put email into the spam folder. Refusing it outright is a case for the European Commission which hopefully will slap you another few billions of fine onto the wrist until you remember to play nicely with the other kids. I prefer getting a bounce than ending in the spam folder by far. Lots of relatives on Gmail never look into the spam folder so I never know if they get to see my email or not and I en…

But you can mark it as "not spam" (and hope that it does something, I guess) while you (as the recipient) have no options whatsoever with a hard rejection.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#272

Post by craftinator »

joshuamorton wrote: post #238
maxaf wrote: post #9

> I'm sure there is no malicious intent behind this How can anyone be sure of this? This is only one of Google’s practices that seems to follow a pervasive pattern of eroding open internet standards while presenting Google’s own proprietary implementation as somehow superior. Eventually, the open standard loses all meaning because the most popular implementation does not actually adhere to it. Meanwhile, Google reaps…

Email in Gmail isn't used for ad targeting, so this line of thinking doesn't follow well.

So says... Google?

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#273

Post by robbrit »

vbezhenar wrote: post #164
Tepix wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right response to this problem - for gmail users - would be to switch to a different email provider. After all, if you are not receiving important mails because Google decides to block them for inexplicable reasons, you are getting an inferior, faulty service. (For me gmail is inferior regardless as my privacy is violated)

Can you suggest free email provider with similar level of service which allows to use your own domain?

ProtonMail has a free tier. It's definitely not the same level of service as Gmail, but I prefer it to being so dependent on the big G juggernaut for a critical service.

Downsides:

* spam detector is a bit aggressive, sometimes legitimate emails make it in there.

* features are limited unless you pay.

Full disclosure: I pay for their Plus product. My rationale is that I pay twice as much per month for Netflix yet email is hugely more valuable to me than Netflix is.

More full disclosure: I used to work for Google. That's part of what made me move from Gmail.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#274

Post by megous »

mrweasel wrote: post #99
zoom6628 wrote: post #74

Only 3 people I know using Gmail any longer. I stopped back in 2010 and "didn't feel a thing".

How do you really know? G-Suite has become extremely popular with business in the last few years.

You'll see something like this in the logs:

... status=sent (250 2.0.0 OK 1556280611 c1###########x.57 - gsmtp)

even if the e-mail address doesn't end with @gmail.com

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#275

Post by prlambert »

benou wrote: post #213
prlambert wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the PMs for Gmail and hang around HN quite a bit. This is my personal take, not an official reply. It's simply not true we have no incentive to fix this. Here are a few: Firstly, Gmail's success is entirely predicated on the health of the global email ecosystem. Gmail does not, inherently, have any network effects (unlike FB, messengers, any other comms tool of Gmail's scale). Email itself, of course has a…

> Gmail does not, inherently, have any network effects This is wrong. The current situation is "if you want to reliably contact gmail users you need a gmail address". This is no different than Facebook or messengers. And that may actually be the incentive for Gmail being such a bad player compared to everybody else.

(also @reaperducer) Something I didn't fully appreciate until I got here was: 1. Work (aka enterprise) sends much more email than consumer, and 2. Outlook dominates enterprise. Their market share is pretty astounding.

I assure you there is a lot of email coming from Outlook/Exchange.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#276

Post by craftinator »

prlambert wrote: post #183
reaperducer wrote: post #8

Google has no incentive to fix these kinds of problems. It's big enough that when someone complains that a message sent wasn't received, the intended recipient will say, "I never have problems with my Gmail account. It must be you." And the sender has to switch to Gmail to reliably communicate with the outside world. I wish this was just paranoia, but we've seen multiple discussions on HN about Google programs and po…

I'm one of the PMs for Gmail and hang around HN quite a bit. This is my personal take, not an official reply. It's simply not true we have no incentive to fix this. Here are a few: Firstly, Gmail's success is entirely predicated on the health of the global email ecosystem. Gmail does not, inherently, have any network effects (unlike FB, messengers, any other comms tool of Gmail's scale). Email itself, of course has a…

So will you fix OP's problem then, prlambert?

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#277

Post by dilawar »

swiley wrote: post #223
jacobolus wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm one of the PMs for Gmail and hang around HN quite a bit. Can you bring back the old web UI? I experience obnoxious interaction and interface bugs in the new one on an hourly basis, it has horrendous interaction latency for many operations that used to be snappy, it looks worse, and has basically nothing new I want. Actually, can you bring back the Gmail of like 10 years ago? Basically every change since then ha…

If you install noscript and log in the old UI comes back and it's amazing! I've actually stopped using mutt on my laptop for gmail because of it.

Stopped using mutt! Strange!!

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#278

Post by jandrese »

mcsb4 wrote: post #215
prlambert wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the PMs for Gmail and hang around HN quite a bit. This is my personal take, not an official reply. It's simply not true we have no incentive to fix this. Here are a few: Firstly, Gmail's success is entirely predicated on the health of the global email ecosystem. Gmail does not, inherently, have any network effects (unlike FB, messengers, any other comms tool of Gmail's scale). Email itself, of course has a…

> It's simply not true we have no incentive to fix this I just happen to have set up an email server and encountered the same problems with Google as described in the article. I own the IP since quite some time, it is not on any black list, reverse DNS is set up etc. but Google rejects email as spam. And this even happens when the gmail account has added the sender in his address book and has send the first email to…

It's not just small fries getting hit by this. Google regularly refuses to deliver mail from backerkit.com to my account, by far the most popular Kickstarter fulfillment support service. I frequently have to contact Kickstarters and ask them to manually send me mail because Google is refusing to accept it, which is annoying and wastes their time.

I wish Google had a way you could tell it "messages from these people/domains are never spam (or I'll deal with it myself)".

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#279

Post by silversconfused »

craftyguy wrote: post #209
mtw wrote: post #202

In the article: > I can't tell other people to go off Gmail I disagree. There are reasons to switch off gmail. Not just Google eating mail but also for privacy reasons. Google knows all about your banking, eCommerce orders, your media subscriptions, health issues and many other dependencies. A good alternative is protonmail. It is private, has a mobile app, is a free but you can also pay to support the service. I als…

Or, if you don't want to commit yourself to yet another walled garden, there are quite a few other email providers that to choose from.

Please list a few. I need 3 personal inboxes, 2 home business inboxes (bills, etc), and the ability to make new inboxes for stupid startup prototypes you buy a domain for, hack on for a few days with dreams of huge sales, and then forget about for a year until the domain expires. You know, normal hacker stuff.

Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail

#280

Post by craftinator »

mcsb4 wrote: post #215
prlambert wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the PMs for Gmail and hang around HN quite a bit. This is my personal take, not an official reply. It's simply not true we have no incentive to fix this. Here are a few: Firstly, Gmail's success is entirely predicated on the health of the global email ecosystem. Gmail does not, inherently, have any network effects (unlike FB, messengers, any other comms tool of Gmail's scale). Email itself, of course has a…

> It's simply not true we have no incentive to fix this I just happen to have set up an email server and encountered the same problems with Google as described in the article. I own the IP since quite some time, it is not on any black list, reverse DNS is set up etc. but Google rejects email as spam. And this even happens when the gmail account has added the sender in his address book and has send the first email to…

Ah, but you forgot to send it from a Gmail address! That's the big important requirement!
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