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FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

washingtonpost.com

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Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#271

Post by enraged_camel »

winningcontinue wrote: post #266
MBCook wrote: post #34

A tweet from Yashar Ali: US Attorney re the Huffman/Loughlin (among others) college scam: "We're not talking about donating a building...we're talking about fraud." https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1105493852578697217 Says quite a lot, doesn’t it.

yup, most striking sentence to me as well. If you donate an entire building, it's fine and legal. Smaller payments in the form of money, is fraud.

Well yes, because donating a building benefits all the students using that building today and well into the future. Small payments (i.e. bribes) to individuals benefit no one except those individuals.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#272

Post by enraged_camel »

aliston wrote: post #148
jedberg wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reality is that the college you attend, especially for undergrad, has relatively little bearing on your life as a whole. In most cases yes. But when we're talking about elite colleges, it has significant bearing. Living in the dorm with a future CEO may be helpful in your future job search, and if you go to an elite college, you have a much better chance of having done that. Going to Stanford or Berkeley or MIT…

My point is not that going to a top college isn't a great opportunity. My point is that for someone who could have gotten into Stanford, the actual admission it isn't defining. Someone with that sort of intelligence and drive will find a way to meet the future CEO, get a great job and so on regardless of whether they attend. I went to Stanford. I love my undergrad. But I also have faced plenty of rejection and advers…

>>My point is that for someone who could have gotten into Stanford, the actual admission it isn't defining. Someone with that sort of intelligence and drive will find a way to meet the future CEO, get a great job and so on regardless of whether they attend.

Maybe, but getting into an elite college is a very strong signal that can act as a multiplier for every other character trait.

Having drive and intelligence is great. Having drive and intelligence, and getting into Stanford, is life-changing.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#273

Post by kome »

Balgair wrote: post #171

Oh dear God. Reading into the indictments, it seems that a lot of the kids never had a clue that they were complicit in the schemes: >... and it was like, the kids though, and it was funny 'cause the kids will call me and say, "Maybe I should do that again. I did pretty well and if I took it again, I'll do better even" Right? And they just have no idea that they didn't even get the score that they thought they got. C…

no empathy with the wealthy, not sorry.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#274

Post by thoman23 »

alasdair_ wrote: post #264
bonestamp2 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they were actually interested in education the scenario would have been completely different. Seriously, I was staying at the Trump hotel in Chicago (before Trump ran for president -- before I ever gave much thought about Donald Trump). Anyway, there was a looping video on the TV and she was inviting guests to stay at any one of their other Trump hotels around "North America and Canada." It was at that moment I…

>Seriously, I was staying at the Trump hotel in Chicago (before Trump ran for president -- before I ever gave much thought about Donald Trump). Anyway, there was a looping video on the TV and she was inviting guests to stay at any one of their other Trump hotels around "North America and Canada." It was at that moment I realized that she thought North America was some kind of Northern area of America. I no longer won…

Ivanka?

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#275

Post by justatdotin »

bsanr wrote: post #237
Balgair wrote: post #171

Oh dear God. Reading into the indictments, it seems that a lot of the kids never had a clue that they were complicit in the schemes: >... and it was like, the kids though, and it was funny 'cause the kids will call me and say, "Maybe I should do that again. I did pretty well and if I took it again, I'll do better even" Right? And they just have no idea that they didn't even get the score that they thought they got. C…

>One day you are a USC/Harvard/Stanford grad. The next day you are a fraud. And not only that, you are revealed to the entire world to be dumb as a box of rocks, just totally naked and shamed. And you had no clue. Your closest family members spent tens of thousands of dollars fooling you, committing very serious crimes on your behalf, and all the while, lying to you about your intelligence and work ethic. It's not re…

this --^

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#276

Post by integrate-this »

edoo wrote: post #270
alasdair_ wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because a university is a nonprofit that exists only for the purpose of improving the world. (Not necessarily the employees, who work there as a job, but it's why universities exist.) For something like fifteen years of my life I owed well over a hundred thousand dollars of non-bankruptable debt because of the fees this "non-profit" charged. A "non-profit" university exists for many, many reasons. Giving the dean a…

"Non-profit" is literally no more than a corporate tax status. That actual charitable causes happen to be non-profit is a coincidence.

Correct. Despite this, I choose to donate to my universities because a) when its my children's turn, I want the organization to remember my name, and b) I honestly believe that education is a truly worthwhile pursuit and I want to expand access to, and quality of, education and discovery. PhDs and grad students may be a bunch of blowhards but they drive a lot of innovation.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#278

Post by nemothekid »

bachmeier wrote: post #231
nemothekid wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most universities primary function is research, and tuition doesn't pay for research. Most funds from research (should) come from grants and donations. The research into a cancer cure doesn't come from Jimmy Undergrad paying tuition.

> Most universities primary function is research Actually, in the US, at the vast majority of universities, the primary job of faculty involves teaching, extension/outreach, and forms of service like mentoring students. Most universities have research expectations, but that is not how faculty spend their time. > and tuition doesn't pay for research. This is a STEM-oriented view. In a lot of fields the primary cost of…

>This is a STEM-oriented view. In a lot of fields the primary cost of research is faculty time, and it is often paid by tuition.

While I don't doubt there are colleges out there that primarily function of tuition, I'm fairly confident that the schools that the GP was talking about which take in millions of donations, are not funded by tuition - STEM or not. Endowments are practically tax-free hedgefunds. There are several liberal arts colleges in boston with billion+ endowments - where the return alone on the endowment rivals the total revenue from students (assuming they were all paying the full 50k, which they likely aren't).

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#279

Post by tempodox »

The FBI must be extremely bored to waste their time with that trivial day-to-day bribery that everyone takes for granted. The cultural shock to those poor rich parents must be debilitating. How is the country supposed to work if you can't grease the wheels? On the plus side, any actual crime must obviously have been extinguished.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#280

Post by dragonwriter »

sizzle wrote: post #200
lainga wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what if you find this out, but worked your ass off and got straight As during your degree? Were your parents giving you unknown help then, too? Can you ask them? Where does it end?

When you are born into privilege (kid of a celebrity), you are afforded the best private tutors and academic resources that money can buy during you academic career, starting from childhood. Assuming you are born with a neurotypical brain, you are at an advantage over your less wealthy peers from day one whether you perceive it or not.

> When you are born into privilege (kid of a celebrity), you are afforded the best private tutors and academic resources that money can buy

The most expensive, sure, but the best? Celebrities are often no more qualified to select quality outside of their field—and education is rarely the field of any celebrity in our society—than any random person picked off be street, and they are a lot higher value target for charlatans. Sure, they may have staff who nominally assist them, but even if the staff are skilled and would be useful if they were vigorously loyal, they, in some cases, can be corruptly influenced just like university staff can.

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