Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon • Hacker News Board

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#271

Post by jhall1468 » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

axaxs wrote: post #37

untog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Medium article[1] mentions a couple - Google prioritizing their reviews above Yelp in search results, Amazon copying third party products that were successful on its marketplace. [1] https://medium.com/@teamwarren/heres-how-we-can-break-up-big...

RE Amazon... how is this much different than say, store branded items from a grocery or WalMart, or quasi store brands(ie brands mainly only sold in WalMart, like Brahma boots or Ozark Trail)?

It's 100% the same thing which is why this entire argument is so weird to me. This has been going on for decades.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#272

Post by marricks » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

Why not both? Dumping on someone’s policy because you don’t who they target first doesn’t really help.

God knows I’d trust her to break up ISPs before pretty much any other candidate.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#273

Post by jayess » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

Because this is a political move and it is being done for political reasons.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#274

Post by awakeasleep » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

devoply wrote: post #196

oceanstone wrote: post #178

> The key components of the Warren plan include passing legislation that would designate companies with annual global revenue above $25 billion that provide marketplace, exchange, or third-party connectivity as “platform utilities” and prohibit those companies from owning participants on their platforms. As a Googler, speaking for myself, this seems like an interesting idea that could positively impact the tech scene…

I also see Elizabeth Warren has created a set of powerful enemies way too early that will do much to stop her from becoming America's first woman president. If you wanna do something like this wait until you are in office. These are not issues that your average American cares about.

No one can make an informed claim about the correct timing here, and to do so and say we should wait smells of concern trolling.

No, it wouldn't make sense for Warren to wait if she wants progress. She should introduce the idea to the public as soon as possible, move the overton window, and if the idea has merit it'll be easier for someone in the future to carry it forward.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#275

Post by baskint » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

agree, ISPs, cable-providers and wireless carriers should also be on the top of the list. Same here, there is no alternate to Comcast in where I live offering a similar service. They have been doing very slight improvements in service while almost doubling their prices.

Paying $110/month for a business line with 50 down / 10 up, while recently i was offered then refused a promotion upgrade to $140/month with 150 down / 25 up for 3 years. After three years, the pricing goes close $300. Unbelievable deceiving offerings for reduction in current pricing. Totally stuck... :(

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#276

Post by basch » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

furst wrote: post #251

the_trapper wrote: post #194

I think breaking up the ISPs and media conglomerates would be much more impactful. I can't think of a single market segment where Google and Amazon lack effective competition. Facebook is already bleeding users, and how would you break up a social media company in an impactful way anyhow? Facebook's ventures outside of social media aren't even close to being monopolies.

Facebook owns Instagram, Whatsapp, and dozens other platforms. Sure, Facebook proper is bleeding users, but the platform gaining the most users right now is Instagram, which is still Facebook. Google would be fairly easy to break up among Alphabet subsidiaries, and Amazon could be split among Amazon.com, AWS, and Whole Foods. She actually gets fairly specific about what she her plan is if you actually read the medium…

If youre going to break up Amazon, AWS, and Whole Foods for being vertically integrated, how can you not break up the oil companies or the agriculture companies or the chemical companies.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#277

Post by skrebbel » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #97

There's precedent to this in the USA. The US Government once passed regulations that caused one of the largest companies in America to break up into three smaller companies. Today those, three companies are entirely independent, employ over 400,000 people combined, and have a combined net work of over $400B. Those companies are Boeing Aircraft (153k employees, $244B market value), United Technologies (202k employees,…

How would this work in practice though? Eg Amazon. Bezos is a major shareholder. Imagine splitting AWS from the retail arm, which I guess would be a sensible split point. If Bezos controls both, then what would really change?

I'm not critical to the idea nor supportive - I'm just curious to learn more.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#278

Post by wybiral » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

jhall1468 wrote: post #256

wybiral wrote: post #52

Google/Facebook/Amazon have the power to push any startup competition out of the market in ways that are hard to even enumerate. Think about all of the services, devices, and standards that they control. Watching the fanboys defend their favorite tech giant is incredible. These companies are not behaving in the markets or people's best interest and they are way too big, at a scale that dwarfs most of the worlds organ…

> Watching the fanboys defend their favorite tech giant is incredible. These companies are not behaving in the markets or people's best interest and they are way too big, at a scale that dwarfs most of the worlds organizations. It's not illegal to be big, it's illegal to use your influence to prevent competition in a way that's illegal. There's zero evidence of that, which is why she's talking about a new law. And pl…

> It's not illegal to be big

I never said that it was.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#279

Post by thr_w » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #191

thr_w wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a very strange argument. The GP seemed to be calling for making US AI research less efficient because it's the sporting thing to do? I'm not just throwing stones here. I'd welcome some clarification from GP.

The original poster asked what benefit breaking them up would have, they didn't necessarily ask for a benefit that's something lots of Americans would see as positive. America and its technology companies aren't super popular in many parts of the world in recent years, and people unfond of it would welcome progress in AI technology becoming less concentrated in the US. Maybe a more left-leaning Senator like Warren mi…

I don't mind spitballing a bit here.

I'm definitely left-leaning economically. I also am very much in favor of giving developing nations a chance at competing with our economy.

However, I would go more or less the opposite direction of what you're suggesting. I support allowing American companies to produce jobs on foreign shores _provided those companies follow American labor laws_. I'm in favor of pro-labor regulation and I'm also in favor of free international trade, but not where the latter is at the expense of the former. A totally free world market would circumvent our protections at home.

All this to say, I wouldn't really call what you're suggesting a benefit by any view.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#280

Post by pitaj » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

ortusdux wrote: post #249

mabbo wrote: post #97

There's precedent to this in the USA. The US Government once passed regulations that caused one of the largest companies in America to break up into three smaller companies. Today those, three companies are entirely independent, employ over 400,000 people combined, and have a combined net work of over $400B. Those companies are Boeing Aircraft (153k employees, $244B market value), United Technologies (202k employees,…

We also broke up Ma Bell back in 84 and it looks like they are on their way to fully reuniting as an even larger monopoly. https://i.imgur.com/rMFqmbt.jpg https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/03/att-time-warner...

Ma Bell wasn't created naturally at all. It's monopoly status was granted by the federal government. This is fundamentally different from Facebook, Amazon, etc. If anything, the large ISPs like ATT, Verizon, and Spectrum should be looked at, but solving the problems of ISP monopolization will take a lot more than just breaking up territorial monopolies into smaller territorial monopolies.