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A Vegan No More

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Re: A Vegan No More

#271

Post by erikpukinskis »

Xodarap wrote: post #222
pyre wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the animal products that are used in the growing of vegetables, are by-products of the livestock (meat,eggs,dairy) industries. If we were able to successfully eliminate those industries, then I highly doubt that they would be able to raise animals just for the creation of those by-products and still make it economical. Feel free to correct me as I haven't researched this extensively.

What animal products are used in the growing of vegetables? You mean fertilizer? Almost all fertilizer is synthetic; there are a few places that use manure, but they are the exception.

There's a lot of bone and fish meal used in organic farming. Conventional farming is much more vegan than organic.

Re: A Vegan No More

#272

Post by erikpukinskis »

gregwebs wrote: post #214
erikpukinskis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of what you have to say, but I want to make a note about this: Opting out of meat entirely does nothing to change the industry, because most people will always eat some meat if they can afford it. I think opting out does a few things. It puts pressure on restaurants to offer alternatives to meat, so we're not all forced to eat it because it's the only healthy option. It pushes our culture to give pe…

I think you could actually be doing more harm then good if you are focusing on "meat or no meat". This really still re-enforces factory farmed meat because it acts like the only meat choice is factory farmed. If the choice is between the environmentally destructive technique- grain fed factory meat or sustainably raised grass-fed meat, that would actually make the meat situation better.

I don't. I focus on the ecology of animals and people and environment and trying to make it better. There are dozens and dozens of considerations.

Re: A Vegan No More

#273

Post by zatara »

lucasjung wrote: post #268
zatara wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You certainly show a level of maturity that is not common among typical hunters. I understand that you enjoy the process of hunting, not only the result, and I can sympathize with that. Thanks for augmenting my perspective on the subject.

On the one hand, I appreciate the second two sentences of your post. On the other hand, the first sentence wipes out any semblance of goodwill: "You certainly show a level of maturity that is not common among typical hunters." This is just plain stereotyping. I don't know how you formed your perception of the average maturity level of a typical hunter, but it clearly wasn't by actually interacting with typical hunter…

I have no problems changing my mind when proved wrong, but there are facts that cannot be ignored. It is very difficult (and definitely not advisable) to stereotype individuals, but certain qualities can be easily attributed to groups of people. For example, I can say that the "typical swimmer" is not black, which shows no prejudice, just the statement of a fact. Likewise, I can also infer that the "typical" golfer is an upper-class/rich guy. Please bear in mind that I cannot say anything about a single individual, but there are certainly some common characteristics.

I apologize if I offended you in anyway, perhaps I have been just unlucky with my prior shallow and brief interactions with hunters.

Re: A Vegan No More

#274

Post by LikeOMG »

"A Vegan Diet" is nothing more than a diet devoid of animal products or byproducts. A vegan diet could technically be nothing but potato chips. What did this woman eat? What did she eat exactly? What sort of workout did she do every day? How many green smoothies did she rely on for energy for her workouts? This has nothing to do with veganism, but everything to do with a very confused person who did not know how to feed herself.

Re: A Vegan No More

#275

Post by [deleted] »

elblanco wrote: post #191
Egregore wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plants and fungus don't have nervous system, so there are no scientifically demonstrable ways how they will use ability to suffer. Animals can move and suffering helps them find better conditions, for example if there is to hot an animal will seek another place, if something causes suffering animals will try to avoid it, plants on the other hand can't move and can't avoid suffering so plants don't need to feel suffer…

>Plants and fungus don't have nervous system Who says plants don't have a different, but equivalent way of sensing their environment? Plants respond to stressors in the same way that animals do, they fail to thrive -- they wilt, or don't produce fruit, they grow more slowly, etc. Overtime, plants evolve defensive mechanisms like bark, thorns or poisons. Everything an animal does (or at least with strong analogies to…

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