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Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

businessinsider.com

271–280 of 345 posts

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#271

I'm loosing touch here, why is this not a manufactured controversy and instead an actual complaint that has any merit? Why aren't we "accusing" ISPs from routing to the website? "Accusing" wayback machine of caching it? "Accusing" CDNs of not null-routing it? so this article gets to masquerade Apple and Google's power consolidation as a good thing and you guys eat it up? I'm going to call my publicist and start my ow…

Please no, we don't want any censorship on the web. App stores are walled gardens, lets keep the censorship inside those walls

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#272
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's telling how comments like this are downvoted. But then again YCombinator has an interest in keeping Saudi Arabia happy.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19142128

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19143446

Please stop with your attacks on me.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#273
post #79

A pragmatic view: 70% of the mobile devices in Saudi Arabia run Android. Outcome 1- Apple bans Absher but Google does not. Absher usage continues. Android gains market share over time. Outcome 2- Apple and Google both ban Absher. Android users install it via sideload from the government website. Carriers preload the sideloaded Absher app onto new phones. Absher usage continues. Android market share grows over time. I…

taking a moral stance is the only thing they can do, OTOH. KSA will find other ways to track them.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#274

I am surprised that no-one has brought up a neutrality argument yet. The app is legal within Saudi Arabia and in fact published by their government. Are we to take down any app which violates anyone’s morals? Or just the morals of particular countries? If an app is blasphemous by the standards of say Mormonism or Islam, should we take it down? After everyone is done, how many apps will be left? If we enforce some mor…

You don’t need a bright and fast rule that covers every imaginable case. You can just decide the easy cases, like this, and you lose absolutely nothing in the process.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Using our influence over Apple and Google to project power against Saudi Arabia and try to force them to agree to different moral norms is in stark contrast to the idea of sovereignty and signals to everyone else that that kind of behaviour is ok. On the other hand, not using our influence over Apple and Google to project power against Saudi Arabia and try to force them to agree to different moral norms signals tha…

How do we draw the line in what norms to enforce? And who determines that those norms are actually better than the ones in place? It seems like this would be a great way for multinational corporations to become cultural and moral enforcers, which causes bad incentives to influence people towards consumption above all else.

Doesn't take rocket science. Are people being directly harmed by this product ? The answer in this case is clearly yes. Take down the app immediately.

Freedom of speech is one thing. This app is _specifically_ created to harm women who want refuge.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#276
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Google should yank the app. I think Apple should be forced to carry the app or open their platform. Android users can install whatever they want. Apple should not be in a position to prevent iPhone users from doing the same. To me if BMW said "You can buy this car but you're not allowed to drive to to Compton Los Angeles". The answer should not be "If you want to drive to Compton buy some other brand". It sho…

> Apple claims total dominion over what apps you can run on your iOS device This stopped being true some years ago. You can build any app you wish from source and Xcode will sign it and you can run it on your iOS device—no approval or payment required.

Yupp, because so many apps are open source.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Google should yank the app. I think Apple should be forced to carry the app or open their platform. Android users can install whatever they want. Apple should not be in a position to prevent iPhone users from doing the same. To me if BMW said "You can buy this car but you're not allowed to drive to to Compton Los Angeles". The answer should not be "If you want to drive to Compton buy some other brand". It sho…

> I think Apple should be forced to carry the app > I get that Apple shouldn't be forced to carry those apps This is a confusing stance.

[deleted]

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#278

I am surprised that no-one has brought up a neutrality argument yet. The app is legal within Saudi Arabia and in fact published by their government. Are we to take down any app which violates anyone’s morals? Or just the morals of particular countries? If an app is blasphemous by the standards of say Mormonism or Islam, should we take it down? After everyone is done, how many apps will be left? If we enforce some mor…

>If we enforce some morals and not others in our app stores, who exactly do we choose as the arbiters of morality?

Apple and Google are, and their moral guideline is money. They are in the business of making money. If the content seems close enough to illegal and small enough revenue to not be worth investigating it, or if the content is legal but costs more to host than it brings in due to backlash, it will be censored. I would even guess that content that is illegal but brings in enough money won't be banned (unless a court order comes in that isn't worth the cost to fight).

One can just look at Reddit's history of banning content and see that it bans things not based on morals or laws but on when it stopped being a revenue generation. The allowed their most popular sub-reddit for years until moral outrage grew due to a news investigation, and then banned it under the guise of being illegal and protecting minors (despite the content not being illegal, as the federal government wouldn't have allowed to continue operating had it been).

Don't Apple and Google already block plenty of legal content they don't want to deal with? Consumers should force them to explain why they are willing to deal with this specific content.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#279

I am surprised that no-one has brought up a neutrality argument yet. The app is legal within Saudi Arabia and in fact published by their government. Are we to take down any app which violates anyone’s morals? Or just the morals of particular countries? If an app is blasphemous by the standards of say Mormonism or Islam, should we take it down? After everyone is done, how many apps will be left? If we enforce some mor…

I think we have to take a different stance. If you think a company is anathema for some position they take or product they offer, then stop supporting them. Boycott all Apple and/or Google products. Sell their stock out of your retirement holdings. Shed a light to others explaining why they should care and hope they do the same.

I also agree (as posted below) that a good place to start is the UN Declaration of Human Rights. We've collective agreed that this is a minimum line and should require all companies and countries to meet or exceed these requirements.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#280
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple claims total dominion over what apps you can run on your iOS device This stopped being true some years ago. You can build any app you wish from source and Xcode will sign it and you can run it on your iOS device—no approval or payment required.

Yupp, because so many apps are open source.

Apple isn’t stopping anyone from open-sourcing their apps.
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