271–280 of 592 posts
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And only have emergencies around there and don't lose consciousness! It's simple math people!
Buy insurance that has good coverage for the places you are likely to be. Why is that a problem?
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Exactly. It's the same reason we don't have free market police and fire services. You simply don't get to "shop around" for emergency services, which includes privatized ambulance services (which are outrageously expensive, on the order of $12,000 for the ride I took when I had to take one, and it was a relatively benign one... thank god I had insurance). EMS is covered, but that's the Fire Department. After that, it…
The history of private firefighting is a particularly dirty one. In the past, fire companies would show up and demand payment before putting out fires. If a payment couldn't be made, the company might negotiate the purchase of the burning property at a steep discount. Later, insurance companies hired brigades to only put out fires on insured properties. Fire companies might have fought or sabotaged one another in ord…
There are analogies (with smaller consequences) in private tow truck operation.
I'm not saying the ER prices are reasonable, but an ER has to keep a lot of expensive staff and equipment sitting around until they are needed. OK, some ER's they are sitting around. But there is a price to have all that service ready for an emergency. As for high drug prices like the $60 ibuprofen, you are mainly paying for it to be delivered to you by a nurse. ER's have an average profitability of 7.8%. Higher than…
There will be a line-item for the ibuprofen itself, there will then (generally) be a separate line item for staff time spent helping you, and there will almost always be another line item for the facility fee.
The nurse's overhead is theoretically included in those latter two line items, so shouldn't _also_ be charged in the ibuprofen line item.
Now, there are logistical concerns that will make the ibuprofen marginally more expensive at an ER than at a clinic, but definitely not $60.
I accept the logic of high drug prices including staffing costs when those staffings costs aren't included in other line items. In most hospital bills, it seems, those staffing costs are already included.
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I find myself in the same boat. I've spent more from my HSA this year than I put into it (and I put in $6900) while I'm nowhere near hitting my deductible ($6K) because for whatever reason the insurance only thinks I've spent $2.7K. During this time I've tried to shop around, find the least expensive option (none of my medical needs this year have been urgent) and it's been impossible. Nobody can tell me. "You'd have…
The problem with single payer is that it results in shortages. Look at waiting lists for the NHS, especially for mental health or routine surgery. That is a direct consequence of single payer. An unpopular view, but it is a fact.
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This works reasonably well for things like vision care because they're entirely opt-in. Patients who aren't satisfied with the prices they're being quoted can realistically choose to keep wearing glasses instead. No one in their right mind is going to decide that the going rate for chemotherapy is a little steep right now so they're going to sit with the cancer for a year or two and see if the prices come down.
So think of it in terms of food then. We don't have "food insurance," yet food is a short-term need and it works pretty darn well as a free market.
B) I'm not going to wake up in the morning to discover that my expected annual food costs have suddenly increased by four or five orders of magnitude. There is no budget-conscious version of a lot of non-emergency, but still lifesaving, medical care.
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Agreeable until the last sentence: > Of course the problem is that the US is such a big country with huge immigration and scandinavian countries arent so it's always hard to compare. US Population: 325 million US Immigration: 1.5 million (2016) EU Population: 512 million EU Immigration: 2 million (2016) (taken from top Google results) It's fairly accurate to say that, compared to the US, the whole of EU has a "Scandi…
There isn't a single EU health care system. Each country still does their own. Maybe each US state could do their own, but there are huge concerns about freeloader problems since we have unrestricted movement between states in the U.S. From what I've read the systems of European countries are being threatened by the freeloader problem that increase immigration as of late has caused.
(8+ state for the past 21 years, those 8 states having population of 291 million today)
source wikipedia
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> without even getting a quote beforehand Reminds me of this really good article. TLDR: Man tried to call a number of hospitals to find out how much childbirth is going to cost him and received no answers. https://www.vox.com/2016/5/5/11591592/birth-cost-hospital-bi...
Realistically, no hospital is going to give out a price. They don't know what unexpected complication may arise that requires additional services.
It says "Additional charges are made if you require critical care. If your baby requires transitional or specialist care, this is free if they are entitled to NHS care and is chargeable if they are not."
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A lot of people don't get much choice in where they live.
Are they on felony probation? I have moved a few times with little money for better opprotunities. It seems like most people are just psychologically conditioned to die near where they were born. Most people just think the hardship is worth it, which is very much a choice. It is literally cheaper to move to most of the USA than live another month in places like california or nyc.
So that's what they call "Taking care of an elderly relative" these days!
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But, as described in the article that system does not function . Acquiring insurance does nothing to ensure that the facility you visit will accept that insurance. Further, even if the facility you visit does accept the insurance, that's no guarantee that all doctors within that facility accept that insurance. Even further, there's no guarantee you'll be conscious to validate that you go to a facility that accepts yo…
"That system" as described by parent has not been tried, at least not in recent memory. What we see happening now are thousands of unintended consequences from government meddling with the free market.
Exhibit A for why "free market healthcare" is an oxymoron. I have yet to hear a coherent explanation for how anyone can reasonably expect for price discovery to even pretend to function in a market where the consumers can't even guess the prices until after they've already purchased and frequently couldn't reasonably be expected to refuse service even if they did believe it was overpriced.
Exactly. It's the same reason we don't have free market police and fire services. You simply don't get to "shop around" for emergency services, which includes privatized ambulance services (which are outrageously expensive, on the order of $12,000 for the ride I took when I had to take one, and it was a relatively benign one... thank god I had insurance). EMS is covered, but that's the Fire Department. After that, it…
What state? In Washington (and many, though definitely not all), ambulance prices are regulated, for this reason. When I worked private ambulance a couple of years ago it was $680 + $8/mi.