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Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

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Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#271

Post by tedunangst »

lgeorget wrote: post #140
atonse wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As sad as this makes me (because I want Tesla to be wildly successful), I have to agree. This is textbook and brazen stock manipulation, a flat out crime.

I guess I'm a bit off-topic but sometimes I really fail to understand the USA culture. You can make the most outrageous and racist comments because of "freedom of expression" but making speculators lose their shit with a couple of tweets is a "textbook crime" for which you should "go to jail".

Where is it different? Which countries punish racist comments but not fraud?

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#274

Post by ivraatiems »

qaq wrote: post #242
ivraatiems wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Tesla is not profitable, SpaceX claims to be but the veracity of the claim is untested. They're constantly at risk of collapse (due to bad management), and they don't seem to be self-sustaining - Tesla in particular needs infusions of cash constantly to function, and is essentially on life support. They do make good (or at least novel and fascinating) products, but the cost of doing so is extremely high. Why does…

You have any data to backup your claim that SpaceX is not profitable ?

In fairness, it's probably more accurate to say their profitability is not clear.

Their president says they are profitable, and they've claimed that several times over the last few years.[1] However, an expose from the WSJ from 2015 indicated they were quite the opposite then.[2] The Motley Fool suggested in 2017 that SpaceX might be on its way to profitability, but it was still unclear whether they really were or not.[3]

So what I should say is that Tesla is not profitable, and that SpaceX claims profitability, but that the claim is questionable. I'll update my post.

[1] http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-spacex-shotwell-201805... [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/exclusive-peek-at-spacex-data-s... [3] https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/11/11/will-spacex-earn-a...

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#275

Post by NickM »

NickM wrote: post #37
simias wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not super knowledgeable in the stock market, what would he have gained from destroying the shorts? I understand that shorts are effectively a bet that the stock will go down but do they actually damage the company in any way? At a glance it sounds like trying to break the thermometer because you think it's too cold out there, the stock wasn't at risk because of the shorts, instead there were shorts because some i…

If you short a stock, you profit when that company does poorly; since Tesla is one of the most shorted stocks out there, we have many people trying to spread FUD via blog posts/tweets/etc in hopes that they can drive the stock price down. (Or in some cases even going to extremes like fraudulently submitting reports to the NHTSA claiming design flaws and problems with Tesla cars.) This has the side effect of damaging…

I don't know why I'm getting downvoted. The parent post asked why short sellers harm companies, and I gave a legitimate answer, and that answer is also exactly one of the reasons Musk cited for wanting to take Tesla private.

Maybe folks are skeptical about the fraudulent NHTSA complaints? If so, here's a source: https://electrek.co/2016/06/13/tesla-fale-complaints-suspens...

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#276

Post by tomovo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #247
polkapolka wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I give Musk a little bit more credit than brutely calling someone a pedo without any proof. If you are as rich as Musk, there must be someone you can pay to dig up dirt on your opponents. Now there may be more trouble in showing that proof than settling. 400k is nothing for Musk, but principles and hurt ego are priceless.

> dig up dirt on your opponents How does a man risking his life to save children halfway across the planet qualify as an opponent?

He said Elon's rig was total shit.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#277

Post by howard941 »

wjnc wrote: post #243
howard941 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an experienced trader in the sense that I've had only bad experiences trading. Thinking a stop loss order would help I (and the order) failed to account for one of those flash crashes that happen for no obvious reason other than to trigger execution of stopped orders.

With leveraged products (like rolling turbos [1]), that risk is usually on the offering institution? I dabbled in those a few times when pretty sure (or full) of myself. There are no margin calls in turbos, you add leverage to your liking (x 2, x 5, x 10, ..) and you pay a hefty interest on your leverage (say 7%). Your exposure is exactly the price you bought for. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_(finance)

Unfortunately I was long Kraft (the food co), completely unleveraged, and got taken out at a 15% loss thanks to a flash crash-induced stop loss. It taught me a lesson that only losing real money teaches.

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#278

Post by [deleted] »

Asparagirl wrote: post #158
whatok wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to what other replies have said, Elon also has pledged some of his stock in order to secure personal loans. He will have to fund margin calls or sell his stock if the stock falls below a certain price.

THIS. Elon is the largest Tesla stockholder, but he has taken out huge loans against that stock. If the stock price of TSLA falls below about $230/share (there is some confusion about the exact price, but it's widely believed to be somewhere around there) his stock could all be sold to cover the loan, which would suddenly dump the stock price even further, or he could be forced to post more of his stock as collateral…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#279

Post by mirceal »

ProAm wrote: post #72
chollida1 wrote: post #5

The sad piece of karma in all of this is that Musk tweeted in an effort to destroy the shorts. His tweet turned out to: - give the shorts a big dip in his stock, - an investigation by the SEC - an investigation by the DOJ - the backing off of a deep pocketed investor in the Saudis - Him potentially being personally liable, which would mean having to step away from SpaceX and Tesla if he was found guilty of fraud. Thi…

I think he's out at the CEO of Tesla soon anyways. Regardless of this mess.

Imagine the Lion!

Re: Tesla Faces U.S. Criminal Probe Over Musk Statements

#280

Post by DoreenMichele »

polkapolka wrote: post #196
danso wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The small upside of this is that maybe Musk will be convinced to settle the libel suit that was announced yesterday [0]. For the suit filed in the UK, the max loss would be ~$400K (unless it goes to trial and he ends up paying Vern Unsworth's legal costs), and it would spare us the sad spectacle of Musk trying to prove that Unsworth is a pedo. [0] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/cave-rescuer-su...

I give Musk a little bit more credit than brutely calling someone a pedo without any proof. If you are as rich as Musk, there must be someone you can pay to dig up dirt on your opponents. Now there may be more trouble in showing that proof than settling. 400k is nothing for Musk, but principles and hurt ego are priceless.

I give Musk a little bit more credit than brutely calling someone a pedo without any proof.

Have you missed the multiple other shit storms here lately where he smoked a blunt on camera, said crap on Twitter he shouldn't be saying, cried in an interview while looking completely exhausted, etc?

He isn't exactly putting on a convincing performance as a trustworthy, stalwart, social conservative ("respectable business man") with all his ducks in a row.

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