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Why Is College in America So Expensive?

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Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#271

Post by overeater »

patrickthebold wrote: post #25
Domenic_S wrote: post #3

I didn't see this discussed in the article, but IMO the main driver is the availability of student loans. When the government guarantees loans, you can lend whatever you want! The price of a TRIPLE occupancy dorm + 7 day meal access is $14,813.29/YEAR at UC Davis. The "meals", if they haven't changed in the last decade, are Sodexo garbage. And don't forget a "year" doesn't count the summer, or winter break.

Students need to decide if a college degree is worth taking on a massive amount of debt. Either we have lots of young people making bad decisions, or a college degree is incredibly valuable. It's not like the terms of student loans are exceptionally great for the students.

We need to stop pretending young people are complete gullible idiots who don't read anything on the internet or listen to advice from their parents and other adults. There's a simpler explanation and we already know it.

Going to college and getting an education (and especially a good university) makes you so much more money in the future, that it's worth paying a lot. Prices could go to $500K and it'd be worth it. Everyone knows this implicitly. That's why immigrant parents nail their kids so hard on grades and to get into a good school. Is it because they want their kids to get a bunch of debt and become unemployed? Come on. You are way way more likely to get a job with benefits, to spend your life doing something more meaningful (however you want to define it).

It's only us who already went to college, got good careers, who are now saying "well college makes you end up in debt, jobless, with a worthless degree. go into the trades. work for the post office." Why don't more people on Hacker News go into trades? Do some unpleasant, strenuous work in dangerous conditions, for about 10 years hustling day and night before your body gives out for $50K/year? Everyone actually doing a trade is encouraging their kids to go to college.

This really isn't that complicated, and I think most people here are overthinking things. A college degree GREATLY greatly increases the chance you're going to have a more fulfilling career easily that makes you back all the tuition money and opportunity costs, and more.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#272

Post by sam0x17 »

kansface wrote: post #179
fzeroracer wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free market does not work in all situations. There's a reason why our healthcare is an absolute disaster compared to any other first world country, why our college is far more expensive, why our drugs cost more etc And it ain't because of cost control. Every time we loosen the reins a bit and let the 'free market' take the wheels, we see things get a lot worse for Americans as a whole. Especially when you have gi…

> The free market does not work in all situations. Sure, but you did not enumerate a single free market. I'd wager the US healthcare industry is far and away the most regulated market in the entire world. We know that regulation protects the big players at the expense of their would be competition and drives up profits. Colleges are hardly any better, and ISPs are nearly all monopolies granted by municipalities in ex…

I still think the way to go is to have a price index where if procedure X is available in (list of countries with good healthcare system) for $Y, then it should be illegal to charge more than $Y in the U.S. Have a central authority that manages the price index and the list of countries that we survey prices from. Then doctors and hospitals and pharmaceuticals couldn't all take advantage of the system by charging $500 for a fucking IV drip.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#273

Post by jimmaswell »

Domenic_S wrote: post #3

I didn't see this discussed in the article, but IMO the main driver is the availability of student loans. When the government guarantees loans, you can lend whatever you want! The price of a TRIPLE occupancy dorm + 7 day meal access is $14,813.29/YEAR at UC Davis. The "meals", if they haven't changed in the last decade, are Sodexo garbage. And don't forget a "year" doesn't count the summer, or winter break.

I personally loved the Sodexo food at my college. Maybe it varies regionally.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#274

Post by stevespang »

How many other countries in the world put the "squeeze" on their poor and middle class youth such that if you join the military and go murder foreign citizens you can qualify for a GI bill that pays for all college and more (that is of course, if you survive) - - - yet, if you refuse to be a "hit man" for the Gov't (the 6th commandment), you'll likely incur $40,000 or more in college debt . . .

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#275

Post by AngryData »

nostrademons wrote: post #159
clay_the_ripper wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain to me how the government control of those things had lead to price increases? Specifically? I hear this a lot but have never heard an explaination and I am genuinely curious of the reasoning

Some examples other than what people have already mentioned: Prescription drugs. The FDA has a "no existing alternative first" policy - they work on approving drugs for conditions where no current treatment works before they even start considering competitors to existing drugs. This sounds quite logical, but the effect of it is that every new drug is granted a monopoly for a long period of time before any competitor…

You still can build a house that way, building to code is not hard, it only becomes any sort of problem once you start doing crazy shit like open spans 20 foot wide or vaulted ceilings, and even then, there are simple standards for most of that too, which is why the building codes are so extensive. With a couple months of work or training anybody could build a house to code by themselves without a problem. The only real consideration for not doing it yourself is your speed. Some guy that frames all day every day is going to get that job done multiple times faster from practice and have more than all the tools for anything they will encounter, but if you have the time and can swing a hammer then you can do it.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#276

Post by tathougies »

fzeroracer wrote: post #102
frebord wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ultimately, college is expensive in the U.S. for the same reason MRIs are expensive: There is no central mechanism to control price increases. “Universities extract money from students because they can,” says Schleicher at the OECD. “It’s the inevitable outcome of an unregulated fee structure.” Why do people always reach for central control, when we have the ultimate mechanism of price control as a core part of our…

The free market does not work in all situations. There's a reason why our healthcare is an absolute disaster compared to any other first world country, why our college is far more expensive, why our drugs cost more etc And it ain't because of cost control. Every time we loosen the reins a bit and let the 'free market' take the wheels, we see things get a lot worse for Americans as a whole. Especially when you have gi…

I can understand the argument you're trying to make, but it's incredibly sloppy to call the healthcare system we have in America 'the free market'.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#277

Post by tathougies »

denzil_correa wrote: post #134
noetic_techy wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for Singapore: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/upshot/what-makes-singapo...

Doesn't seem like it. > Initially, Singapore let hospitals compete more, believing that the free market would bring down costs. But when hospitals competed, they did so by buying new technology, offering expensive services, paying more for doctors, decreasing services to lower-class wards, and focusing more on A-class wards. This led to increased spending.

hmm... increased spending does not mean higher costs. It could mean higher costs, or it could mean flat or declining costs and a lower profit margin, which is a good thing.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#278

Post by ams6110 »

mcguire wrote: post #239
bhupy wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure - in America, healthcare is far from a free market because: 1) We don’t pay our own healthcare bills, we pay for our healthcare through insurance. As a result, there isn’t a pricing system in place, much like there is for other critical goods and services with price-inelastic demand like food and housing. This is caused by regulations that require employers to provide health insurance for their employees, and mo…

Your fourth paragraph describes the US prior to the 70s and 80s and the HMO ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_maintenance_organizatio... ). What happens is that no one visits the doctor for preventative care, with the result that many cases were not diagnosed until it was very expensive to treat. (Have you had your blood pressure checked recently?) In practice, Erlichmann was right about HMOs.

I'm not so sure about that. I never go to the doctor and I have good insurance. Yet the local ER waiting room is full of people with sore throats and no apparent ability to pay for the services they are there to receive.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#279

Post by telchar »

mcguire wrote: post #212
kansface wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The free market does not work in all situations. Sure, but you did not enumerate a single free market. I'd wager the US healthcare industry is far and away the most regulated market in the entire world. We know that regulation protects the big players at the expense of their would be competition and drives up profits. Colleges are hardly any better, and ISPs are nearly all monopolies granted by municipalities in ex…

An unregulated healthcare market, complete with all the benefits of the free market, was the rule in the US until the Pure Good and Drug Act of 1906. It's history is... entertaining.

An act which incidentally is credited as the most beneficial piece of US legislation to date in terms of addiction reduction and prevention.

Re: Why Is College in America So Expensive?

#280

Post by brownbat »

Spooky23 wrote: post #226
fzeroracer wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free market does not work in all situations. There's a reason why our healthcare is an absolute disaster compared to any other first world country, why our college is far more expensive, why our drugs cost more etc And it ain't because of cost control. Every time we loosen the reins a bit and let the 'free market' take the wheels, we see things get a lot worse for Americans as a whole. Especially when you have gi…

Healthcare is not a free market. It’s a collection of cartels with price controls. Things like healthcare networks were illegal before the Supreme Court redefined monopoly, and are now swallowing up healthcare delivery. CVS essentially controls drug distribution. The AMA is a trade guild that restricts the supply of doctors. A radiologist makes $1M a year because there are only a limited number of new ones minted eac…

> The AMA is a trade guild that restricts the supply of doctors.

Technically the supply of doctors is throttled by residency programs, the numbers of which are determined by an incredibly weird dance between Congress and hospitals.

Your point stands, but just noting that simple monopolistic graft would be far more rational than how this actually works.

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