The Bitter Regrets of a Useless Chinese Daughter • Hacker News Board

Re: The Bitter Regrets of a Useless Chinese Daughter

#271

Post by eb48 » Fri, Aug 24, 2018, 8:05 PM UTC

netsharc wrote: post #64

eb48 wrote: post #58

Woah.. spoilers ahead The author discusses her lack of guanxi and her decision to major in literature as a detriment to her career path ... in the new york times. The postmodernism is striking!

Detriment to her career path? Did you read the right article? More like her lack of networking deterred her from getting the benefits of knowing people, benefits her peers can enjoy.

No, you should re-read the article.

She states that if she lacks networking, then she'd need to get by with wealth -- which then she follows up in a significant part of the article with why she doesn't have wealth due to taking up a less privileged career path.

Re: The Bitter Regrets of a Useless Chinese Daughter

#272

Post by analyst74 » Fri, Aug 24, 2018, 8:13 PM UTC

spyckie2 wrote: post #47

The harsh reality of 1st or 2nd generation Chinese is that while many of us went to the top universities and grew up with a modern, 1st world mindset, we can't escape the fact that our financial and family background is from the developing world, and we live in both worlds at once - our mindset is modern, but the issues and problems of the developing world are still very much things we have to deal with. I first enco…

You are conflating cultural difference with class/mental health.

It sounds like your parents are raised by grandparents with addiction problems, and either in poverty or in unstable financial conditions. So they put an extremely high value on stability. This contrasted your experience and worldviews, because growing up financially secure gives you different take on life. On top of that, now you're peers with some ultra-rich, you see how different you are with your ultra-rich peers and somehow contributed the differences to being Asian.

If your grandparents are poor Americans with addiction problems, I don't think you will magically grow up with wealthy taste, standards and expectations, nor will you have pictures of them leading city town-halls in your house.

On the other hand, if you keep doing well, then in a couple generations, your grandchildren will grow up with those taste, standards, expectations and possibly with a picture of you leading some important events somewhere.

Re: The Bitter Regrets of a Useless Chinese Daughter

#273

Post by TheCoelacanth » Fri, Aug 24, 2018, 8:18 PM UTC

_JamesA_ wrote: post #240

walshemj wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it probably does a "poor" kid from the right back ground (minor nobility landed gentry or even middle class ) will find it easier to get into Oxbridge / Harvard and also grok the social aspects as your parents told you how it works - Boris Johnson is a good example originally not rich but had a lot of connections. For example know why not to wear "brown" shoes in town to an interview for a high paying job /…

> For example know why not to wear "brown" shoes in town to an interview for a high paying job / internship. Why?

Because it shows that you don't know the rule not to wear "brown" shoes in town to an interview for a high paying job / internship and thus are not of the right class to get a high paying job / internship.

Re: The Bitter Regrets of a Useless Chinese Daughter

#274

Post by TACIXAT » Fri, Aug 24, 2018, 8:44 PM UTC

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #135

ak39 wrote: post #77

I am not familiar with nuances of Chinese culture, but I was so intrigued by the "guanxi" phenomenon that I immediately and gladly spent half an hour reading about it and watching Youtube videos of the "guanxi" culture in China.[1] "Guanxi" is nothing other than socially institutionalised networks of non-monetary favours and counter-favours. It happens in every culture actually but the thing that makes "quanxi" uniqu…

Though there's no word for it here, this is also how the poor in the US get things done. Where the middle class become insular, and simply buys someone's time to do things they don't want to do, the poor trade favors with a large network of contacts to do the things that they need to get done.

My SO and I were discussing her former boss who was an amazing people person. She would flatter people and curry favor, but it totally worked. It was hard not to like her because she was so good at it. Bringing those skills of building connections and favor up into the business world seems highly effective.

Re: The Bitter Regrets of a Useless Chinese Daughter

#275

Post by genghisjahn » Fri, Aug 24, 2018, 8:54 PM UTC

genghisjahn wrote: post #180

sturgill wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both my wife and I grew up quite poor (for US standards). We didn’t quite fit in at university and had a hard time relating to our peers who grew up with money (my wife’s parents encouraged her to not go to school but just stay and marry local). We’re doing well for ourselves, but still don’t really fit in among our peers. We’ve coined a phrase for it: “your poverty is showing.” It doesn’t matter how much I make: at…

My parents didn't have a lot of extra money for things, so I rarely asked for the moon. I only asked for things I thought they could provide. But when they couldn't (not enough $), they couldn't and that was how it was explained. "I know you want this, I want you to have it, but I can't." As a child that is disappointing but understandable. For my children, when they ask for something I'm rarely not able to buy it fo…

When I say that my parent's couldn't buy some certain things it kinda makes it sound like I had a deprived childhood or lived in want. There's a whole host of things that were always there: safe food, clean water, AC in summer, heat in winter, clothes fit me and were seasonally appropriate, proper footwear, lights always worked, dog always fed, an adequate public school, shelves of books, an Atari 2600, at least 1 bicycle, a freaking 3 bedroom house, two cars, an attic full of Christmas decorations, parents never beat me, neighbors that could be trusted. I could go on.

Writing all that out makes me wonder why even as I child I was bummed about not getting the Kenner Millenium Falcon or the GI Joe base.

Re: The Bitter Regrets of a Useless Chinese Daughter

#276

Post by wozniacki » Fri, Aug 24, 2018, 9:21 PM UTC

B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #112

wozniacki wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead we get celebrities and players and self-made rich critters out there to catch the limelight and flak. And family, the key base to aristocratic wealth and power, is played down as unnecessary, because a meritocratic system needs no more than individual prowess to succeed. Terrific observation! Although I think I get what you mean by this I'd love for you to expand on it. I'm sure you have dwelled as I have and…

If you look at XIX century sources, you'll see there were groups whose idea of fostering human progress was to terrorize the ruling class, mostly by piecemeal killing of its members with guns and bombs.

Can you suggest a piece of writing that specifically delves into this? Even if not a whole book but a chapter somewhere?

Re: The Bitter Regrets of a Useless Chinese Daughter

#277

Post by Terr_ » Fri, Aug 24, 2018, 9:38 PM UTC

cbhl wrote: post #33

One of the least useful pieces of start-up advice I received in college was, "if your startup fails, don't worry, you can go live in your parents' basement." Well, fine, if your parents owned their home, the worst you have to deal with is the shame of failing. If I did a start-up and it failed, it's probable that my parents wouldn't even have a basement for me to return home to.

Right: It's really annoying when some people peddle "rags to riches" stories where -- upon a bit more digging -- you realize that the protagonist was actually nowhere near "rags" status and that their family's affluence or connections were key factors in them being able to event attempt their lucky moon-shot.

Re: The Bitter Regrets of a Useless Chinese Daughter

#278

Post by m_fayer » Fri, Aug 24, 2018, 9:48 PM UTC

madeuptempacct wrote: post #200

m_fayer wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Survival values" is just right, and key. I've lived this divide (1st gen Russian), and as a teenager could not comprehend why my parents constantly pressured me to study physics and maths, which did not come naturally to me, and why they did not see any value in my achievements in the humanities, or even recognise them as work at all. As a young adult I understood that from their perspective, physics and maths was t…

Except that math background still gets you work in the US. There is a reason why a lot of Russian immigrants that were born in the 60s are directors of departments in the US. You gotta give the USSR its due - it had the best education in the world for a bit.

The USSR also completely shut down the humanities. Generations without philosophy or sociology or anthropology or psychology, it impoverished the culture.

Re: The Bitter Regrets of a Useless Chinese Daughter

#279

Post by shady-lady » Fri, Aug 24, 2018, 10:13 PM UTC

appleiigs wrote: post #14

bxtt wrote: post #4

As an Asian-American, I'm struggling through the same dilemma as well. I've been given a huge opportunity to move to Asia and to initiate a program at a Fortune 100 company, but recently my parents have gotten very ill. My dad was recently diagnosed with cancer, and has had multiple surgeries. My mom has a myriad of health issues, and I feel painfully selfish by not helping them. They would never burden me, and pushi…

I'm asian. I'm not american. I think weighing career dreams (a stereotypical american thing) versus taking care my parents (a stereotypical asian thing) is not even a close decision. When I look back at my life, I'm not going to regret spending extra time in the office. I'm in no way saying my opinion is correct, because everyone has different values. I'm just sharing my surprise of the dilemma in your post and the o…

> When I look back at my life, I'm not going to regret spending extra time in the office.

Did you mean you're not going to regret not spending extra time in the office? i.e. family > work or did you mean work > family

Re: The Bitter Regrets of a Useless Chinese Daughter

#280

Post by m_fayer » Fri, Aug 24, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

analyst74 wrote: post #270

msie wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember 2 houses distinctly - a rich Asian immigrant's house, and a rich Caucasian's house. The Caucasian's was filled with relics of community - pictures of their involvement on sports teams, pictures of grandparents leading town hall meetings - it felt like they were rooted into the city and were an integral part of the community there. In contrast, the Asian immigrant's house was filled with relics of achieveme…

I also feel this narrative has a strange tone about praising the caucasians of being "rooted into the city and were an integral part of the community", and softly blaming the immigrants for lagging behind in community development. I mean, isn't it normal that the immigrants do not have influential grandparents running town-hall meetings in the city they immigrated to?

This immigrant didn't hear that overtone. What I heard instead was the chagrin of recognition. It's not only a lack of influential grandparents, but also the attenuation of communal bonds and instincts that comes with being poor, aggressively upwardly mobile, and originating from a traumatised and turbulent society.