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Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

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Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#271

Post by umvi »

captainarab wrote: post #217
burfog wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got burned by "buying a product and not knowing when it will fail". Samsung made the largest fridge available. I got the $2500 model: stainless steel, no IoT but digital, double doors over drawer freezer. It looked really solid and durable. It failed in so many distinct and interesting ways! The door shelves constantly shattered, at $50 each. The structure had been compromised by artistic design, with two kinds of…

How do you keep breaking so many refrigerator shelves..? I've never broken one in my entire life..

I bet you he (or she) stores large heavy things in their fridge, like big pots of stew or heavy cuts of meat.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#272

Post by EGreg »

_bxg1 wrote: post #247
qiqing wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minor quibble, but Airbnb doesn't own the hosts' homes or apartments, and Uber doesn't own the drivers' cars. Renting is an accurate descriptor of Netflix or Kindle (and Google Play movies actually does have "rent" on the label of the button when you want to rent a movie). And I can see what you mean from the perspective of the guest or rider, but not from the perspective of the host or driver.

> a centralized company which outsources the generation of actual value to others I would argue that you're still renting from Uber and AirBnB, who are just outsourcing their labor and properties to others. Companies like this - I'm looking at you, Facebook - like to claim that they're only impartial platforms, but the reality is that they gain an enormous amount of power over both sides; stealthily, because they hid…

You could argue that you are in control and just outsourcing the making of money and spending it to Elon Musk or the large corporations :)

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#273

Post by mywittyname »

eanzenberg wrote: post #129
magduf wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 16-year-old car will kill you in a crash that a new one will let you walk away from. That's one big, important factor in the new vs. used debate. There's also the factor of how it's going to affect your job and life if your car breaks down. A 2-decade-old car is going to break down at some inopportune time, like it or not, even with the best maintenance.

Fear monger. A 2002 car still has safety features such as airbags, seatbelts, anti-lock brakes that a 2018 will also have.

Those safety features have improved a lot over the years. A 2002 car will have a airbags designed for 160lb men, probably lack side-impact airbags, may or may not have stability control (and if it does, it will be primitive) and will passed only a handful of crash tests.

A 2018 car will have front and side airbags designed to work as well on 120lb woman as a 200lb man, backup cameras, very advanced stability control systems, and will have been tested against the most common causes of crash deaths since 2002.

You can go to the NHSTA website and download the raw crash test and see how many gs your head will experience or how many netwons of force will be applied to your femurs. Using this information, I can see that you would be very likely to sustain a concussion in an accident in a 2002 Camry and your chest would be compressed by 30mm, while in a 2018 Camry you're at minimal risk for any head injury and your chest would only compress by 23mm.

It's pretty interesting stuff. TL;DR: cars are safer today than 20 years ago, by a lot.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#274

Post by techsupporter »

ryandrake wrote: post #241

I’m surprised at the criticism here and I think the critics are missing the author’s point. He’s not saying, “buy more stuff you don’t need” or even, “possess more stuff.” He’s saying, “you ought to own the stuff you possess.” Which I didn’t think was a controversial opinion but I guess I stand corrected. I might be an outlier. I make a deliberate effort to own instead of rent. My commute is enormous because I moved…

> He’s saying, “you ought to own the stuff you possess.” Which I didn’t think was a controversial opinion but I guess I stand corrected.

I think you and the author conflated ownership of "stuff" with ownership of--or a stake in--society. All of the things you listed as owning versus the not-owning (whether it's called renting or leasing or subscribing) are trade-offs you made because you value the concept of ownership of stuff over the opposite.

My view is different: I want ownership of society; I want to be a full participant in society, regardless of the actual state of being of the physical and electronic objects around me. This is why, for example, I give money to local journalists on Patreon, and why I deliberately live in a smaller place in a large city where I can pay taxes to a well-funded library system. This is the type of "ownership" I value.

Other things I do, like ride mass transit, subscribe to Spotify, and pay my city electric bill (I wasn't aware that buying electricity from my municipality impacted my "ownership" of anything, as the author claims), are all things I do because I find them to be more efficient or more useful to me. There are things I unequivocally own, like records or my treasured collection of baseball cards, that have value to me beyond my simple possession of them. There are some things I own, like my residence, where ownership has been more of a burden to me than a non-ownership method would have. It's all about balance.

(One last question: Could you clarify "I do my own taxes?" What is it that doing taxes yourself, presumably by pen and calculator, gains over downloading a product like TaxAct and saving the PDF of the result?)

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#275

Post by emodendroket »

fallingfrog wrote: post #187

Everything this guy illustrates in this article as frightening and subversive, I see as positive. Americans confuse control with love; that's why we say things like "you belong to me" and "I only hurt you because I love you". That's why we substitute possessions for relationships. It's a thoroughly poisonous attitude. The most bizarre statement is when he says "The nation was based on the notion that property ownersh…

I don't think you've really taken in the article if you think what it says is we need to buy more cars. The point here is that we use things we don't really own, and in fact ownership (particularly home ownership) has traditionally been one of the things that's ensured the stability of the country. People who feel they've got something to lose don't generally seek to burn down the whole system.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#276

Post by ProfessorLayton »

captainarab wrote: post #217
burfog wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got burned by "buying a product and not knowing when it will fail". Samsung made the largest fridge available. I got the $2500 model: stainless steel, no IoT but digital, double doors over drawer freezer. It looked really solid and durable. It failed in so many distinct and interesting ways! The door shelves constantly shattered, at $50 each. The structure had been compromised by artistic design, with two kinds of…

How do you keep breaking so many refrigerator shelves..? I've never broken one in my entire life..

Samsung fridges are hot garbage and imo should be avoided at all costs.

I had a not-so-drastic experience with a high-end samsung fridge: A design flaw where the recirculation fan would accrue ice, and symptoms were that it sounded like a chainsaw every time it turned on, and eventually the fan would freeze over. The only way to "fix" it was to thaw it out every few weeks, and any attempt to replace parts was futile since it was a design flaw, not a mechanical failure.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#277

Post by emodendroket »

crazygringo wrote: post #167

This is beyond ridiculous. The crux of the article is: > Each of these changes is beneficial, yet I worry that Americans are, slowly but surely, losing their connection to the idea of private ownership. The nation was based on the notion that property ownership gives individuals a stake in the system. It set Americans apart from feudal peasants, taught us how property rights and incentives operate, and was a kind of…

The article mentions houses specifically as something that, with the "smart home," may end up looking more like your iPhone and less like we've traditionally thought of houses.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#278

Post by emodendroket »

_louisr_ wrote: post #223
crazygringo wrote: post #167

This is beyond ridiculous. The crux of the article is: > Each of these changes is beneficial, yet I worry that Americans are, slowly but surely, losing their connection to the idea of private ownership. The nation was based on the notion that property ownership gives individuals a stake in the system. It set Americans apart from feudal peasants, taught us how property rights and incentives operate, and was a kind of…

>If we want to be nervous, let's investigate inequality of net worth And we should find ourselves completely at ease at the end of our investigation, for in every species success is distributed inequitably. Inequality of net worth is a natural law, and human society is no exception. And we need to keep very hard working people motivated to keep working very hard by ensuring them that they will always keep the lions s…

I don't really think striving for total equality is necessary, but the number of people I see begging for change every morning suggests to me we've taken this to a pathological extreme.

The connection between hard work and wealth is also rather more attenuated than your simple ideal suggests.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#279

Post by Fargren »

digikata wrote: post #123
rhacker wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was trying to parse this too, if my fridge SP was awful in all the ways mentioned, wouldn't I be looking at the competition, especially now that it's easy to cancel a contract and get a better one so easily - instead of paying $1k for a new fridge.

You can rent fridges right now, few people elect to do it...

I rent my apartment, and it comes with a fridge, so I guess I'm renting the fridge too. IS this not common? Do people usually bring their own fridge in when they rent?

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#280

Post by zeroisnowfour »

burfog wrote: post #194
amelius wrote: post #6

It may be better for the environment to not own stuff, but instead use services. For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long…

I got burned by "buying a product and not knowing when it will fail". Samsung made the largest fridge available. I got the $2500 model: stainless steel, no IoT but digital, double doors over drawer freezer. It looked really solid and durable. It failed in so many distinct and interesting ways! The door shelves constantly shattered, at $50 each. The structure had been compromised by artistic design, with two kinds of…

at least it didn't explode and try to kill you

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/492544/samsung-...

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