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New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

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Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#271

Post by dang »

selectodude wrote: post #241
anon23423532 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

muh russia, don't consider anything the media doesn't tell you! See reply above

You posted three articles, two of which don't have China in them even once (I crtl+F'd China, nothing), and the third which is titled "China may use Canada as 'Trojan horse' into US market", an op-ed written by Danny Lam, who if you google may as well not exist. I cannot find him anywhere. muh russia! You should be proud to be paid for this idiocy, because otherwise you'd be that gullible and that would be tragic.

This is the kind of thing we ban accounts for. Please don't do it again, regardless of how wrong you think someone else is.

Edit: I'm dismayed to see that you've been crossing repeatedly into incivility and name-calling in other threads as well. Please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stop doing this if you want to keep posting here. Hacker News is for thoughtful conversation, not belittling enemies.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#272

Post by echotango »

selectodude wrote: post #204
echotango wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A trade deficit means that, on net, your trade partners end up with your currency and no goods to buy with it. So they start buying up assets in your country. Factories, companies, land, housing, bonds, etc. so by maintaining a trade deficit for so long, we have legally sold a large fraction of the assets in our country to foreign investors. (Foreign direct investment) How do you think Trump made his billions? Having…

A trade deficit means that, on net, you've sent a bunch of pieces of paper to a country and they have given you actual stuff in return. So then they give that money back to you by investing in your country. >Having Saudi Oil Sheiks own all the Soccer teams in England is the result of the UK trade deficit. More English soccer teams are owned by Americans than all the russians oligarchs and arab sheiks combined.

>investing in your country

>foreign direct investment

>sheiks owning the sports teams and chineese businessman owning all the prime housing

We're saying the same thing

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#273

Post by passthefist »

psergeant wrote: post #178
hippich wrote: post #154

After reading a bit about the history of tax in the USA, I was surprised to learn that in the very beginning federal government was mostly funded by tariffs. So.. Extra tariffs will bring extra tax revenue. Will federal government cut income/corporate taxes to adjust for it? Or perhaps any paid tariff can be written off of tax bill?

> So.. Extra tariffs will bring extra tax revenue In the short term. In the long term, that’s far from clear. The world economy is rather different now than it was when America was a fledgling economy being exploited by the Brits

And I've seen some articles/papers suggesting that protectionist policies can make sense for an emerging/developing economy to make sure that established/developed economies don't usurp that growth by blocking them from moving up the value chain.

So it may have been good policy back when America was a fledgling economy being exploited by the Brits.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#274

Post by innocentoldguy »

AlexandrB wrote: post #208
innocentoldguy wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sigh. You seem to want to read into what I said more than is there, and to have an argument that is entirely unrelated to anything I've ever said throughout the entirety of my 50+ years on this planet. That being the case, you'll have to find another opponent of your political angst to argue with. I simply have no interest.

I think you misunderstood. I'm violently agreeing with you! I don't think we should have our property confiscated by the force of the government to support these poor corporations. They're not living, breathing people after all.

Yes. I did misunderstand your meaning.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#275

Post by s73v3r_ »

notheguyouthink wrote: post #35
maxerickson wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People buying products subject to tariffs (or products made with materials subject to tariffs) pay the majority of the tariff. So they do cost the public. In a functioning market, local suppliers are likely to raise prices in response to the tariffs, as they face less competition.

I don't know anything about economy, so this is a question not.. a counter, but: > In a functioning market, local suppliers are likely to raise prices in response to the tariffs, as they face less competition. Is that entirely bad? The whole "US Made!" tagline of old stopped becoming possible because we couldn't charge wages low enough to compete with foreign dollars or foreign slave wages. Raising the cost of X item…

Well, in the case of these specific tariffs that the US is imposing, they're on components of things, not on finished goods. So it's actually going to be cheaper to manufacture the entire thing in China, rather than import the components and assemble in the US.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#276

Post by s73v3r_ »

tomp wrote: post #60
Heliosmaster wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will bring jobs back if there are enough people who can afford the local made product. And I wouldn't be sure about it, since in the last few years we have witnessed a thinning of the middle class, and the lower parts of the population might not afford to pay a premium because it's locally made. It's hard to go back from a race to the bottom

> if there are enough people who can afford the local made product Eventually, it will keep more money in the country, meaning people will also be able to afford more (after all, they'll be being paid the higher, local wages now). Compare with e.g. Switzerland, where most people have really high salary (by EU standards), and pretty much everything is really expensive, but because of the high salaries people can affor…

That only works out if those higher salaries get paid to the people who need them, and that the majority of those profits don't get sucked up by those at the top. Given the last 30 years or so, I really do not believe that those at the bottom will have any benefit. They'll still get the same crappy wages, and now everything is more expensive for them.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#277

Post by hugh4life »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #75
hugh4life wrote: post #12

I'm neutral on the tariffs, I am(or was) actually excited about China getting into the memory market to help keep the other memory makers honest... but it's important to have an alternative source of those components in case there would be trouble between the US and China. There needs to be a way to nudge businesses to have a source of components out of China.

Perhaps the US dependence on China for some products neutralises the chance of trouble between the US and China.

The interdependence neutralizes to the chance of a full out war but it also neutralizes consequences to pursuing expansion into the South China Sea.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#278

Post by s73v3r_ »

echotango wrote: post #130
defertoreptar wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you're referring to the USA's "aggregate sales surplus," which measures both direct trade and sales of multinational companies--a headline making rounds on the news this past week. These numbers include items made in China, by Chinese jobs, using Chinese components, under a US company name. It uses total sales, and not net revenue, which would change the picture by a great deal.

Lol people won't actually address your point they just downvote your post. Hn is very classy when people bring up politics

No, we just don't want to waste our time arguing with someone who very clearly is not doing so in good faith.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#279

Post by defertoreptar »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #278
echotango wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol people won't actually address your point they just downvote your post. Hn is very classy when people bring up politics

No, we just don't want to waste our time arguing with someone who very clearly is not doing so in good faith.

> very clearly is not doing so in good faith.

I'm confused. What do you mean by that?

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#280

Post by s73v3r_ »

IanDrake wrote: post #10

These new tariffs are posturing. Trump seems to understand how to negotiate and is willing to take short term hardship for long term gain. We need to have balanced trade agreements. Not balanced in the sense of trade amount, but balanced in the sense of tariffs and subsidies. Access to US consumers is a big bargaining chip. If China won’t deal, there are other countries that will. I think we all understood we had an…

Trump is clearly not a negotiator. If he was, he wouldn't be isolating all of our allies, instead of getting them to side with us to push change in China.
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