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Anthony Bourdain has died

bbc.com

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Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#271

Post by muddyrivers »

smn1234 wrote: post #186
jdietrich wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? There is a very strong relationship between suicide and mental illness. If someone decides to end their own life, it is overwhelmingly likely that they are suffering from some form of mental illness. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12701661 >Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Most people who survive a suicide attemp…

agreed! Is mental illness a cause or a result of treatment for "depression?" Being sad and unhappy is natural... does medication create the illness?

I think the media tend to use "depression" as a general term to describe mental illness. The persons who committed suicide may suffer other forms of mental illnesses. There are a great number of different types of mental illnesses, like there are a great number of different types of cancers, neurodegenerative diseases, etc. Instead of using accurate and specific diagnosis like lymphoma, we use a generic term "depression" in these cases. I think it shows both how little we understand the physiological basis of mental illnesses, and the lack of education in society in this regards.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#272

Post by abalone »

Rob Delaney (of Deadpool 2 and "funniest person on Twitter" fame) has written great stuff on overcoming suicidal depression with support and medication.[1][2][3] It affects the best people.

[1] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7bw89a/comedy-545-v17n10

[2] https://robdelaney.tumblr.com/post/414007899/on-depression-g...

[3] https://www.amazon.com/Rob-Delaney-Warrior-Yardstick-Cabbage...

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#273

Post by scarmig »

soared wrote: post #138
anoncoward111 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that is the statistic I was thinking of (I read an article from a formerly-suicidal female doctor). I assumed that the trend applied to males too but now I am quite curious as to why it does not apply. Regional statistics would be helpful too- some have thought that Finns and Russians carry a genetic marker for suicidal tendencies.

Males die of suicide more often because they use more successful methods. It makes sense that a female doctor would be much more successful than the average female due to her education. Most women use pills, men use guns.

Even when you control for method, men are more successful at suicide than women.

The ratio is just as lopsided with countries with strict gun control (e.g. Britain).

Alternative hypothesis: death is the goal for many men, while women often use suicide attempts as a cry for help.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#274

Post by Toast_25 »

georgewsinger wrote: post #252
fiblye wrote: post #20

The CNN article about his death had this: >Suicide is a growing problem in the United States. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a survey Thursday showing suicide rates increased by 25% across the United States over nearly two decades ending in 2016. I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude. With a growing list…

> Suicide is a growing problem in the United States. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a survey Thursday showing suicide rates increased by 25% across the United States over nearly two decades ending in 2016. > I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude. Not trolling: wouldn't this provide (weak, but nevertheles…

It may be that the effects we're having now were caused by that "man up" attitude that was going on back then.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#275

Post by magduf »

berberous wrote: post #169
Ntrails wrote: post #60

>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without…

There is an excellent documentary called "The Bridge" about people committing suicide by jumping off of the golden gate bridge in SF. Given the height of the bridge, it takes 4 seconds before you hit the water, and some people survive it. They had interviews with people that survived it -- and they basically all said that as soon as they let go, they realized it was a mistake. That all of their problems were solvable…

So it sounds like what we need is a way for people to think they're really committing suicide, but in reality they're not, so they can go through the experience and realize they don't really want to do it after all.

This reminds me a bit of that movie "Strange Days" (where people relived others' experiences), or of course "The Matrix".

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#276

Post by hackermailman »

Miltnoid wrote: post #153
oldsklgdfth wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really try to downplay the depression-based suicide angle - at least for my own sanity. I like to think that large part of depression is based on circumstances, I leave out the clinical cases that have underlying physiological causes. If you are unhappy enough to end your life, then there are probably things that you can change to stop feeling that way, i.e. job, relationships, friends, habits. In a lot of ways thi…

You might like to think that, but its not an honest representation of the majority of suicides. Most people who kill themselves do it, not for circumstantial reasons, but physiological ones like clinical depression.

Many people who try and kill themselves, according to friends who are staff at peer run suicide prevention clinics, do so because of a temporary insanity. They aren't depressed, they just sort of lose their mind for a few hours and if they survive the attempt have no idea how they ended up almost killing themselves. Everybody assumes these people are routinely depressed all the time but they tell you otherwise, that it was a delerious state they were in, unable to reason rationally about what they were doing.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#277

Post by oldsklgdfth »

magduf wrote: post #262
oldsklgdfth wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gonna stray away from talking about mental illness, cause I'm not a doctor and there are a lot of grey parts. Suicide is about giving up. There can be a number of reasons for throwing the towel in. For seemingly normal people, I tend to think it's because they feel like they have failed in a way that is irredeamable. Like the samurai guys, that have disgraced themselves and there is no way to go on without their…

>Like the samurai guys, that have disgraced themselves and there is no way to go on without their honor. It is all in their head as expectations they have created. It's not "all in their head". If they don't meet society's expectations of them, then society will treat them very negatively (probably making them an outcast, if not a prisoner, depending on what happened). People in that position, in that society, take t…

This is true. There are some societies that are very strict and unforgiving and give people very few options. Make departing from societies expectations an options. Those expectations are in their collective head.

A person in prison is facing a real prison. The expectations society sets are not prison bars. But it harder to say that society has a fundamental problem with expectations.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#278

Post by Ntrails »

alexhutcheson wrote: post #173
Ntrails wrote: post #60

>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without…

This blog post from a psychiatrist is a good read for people interested in this debate: http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/25/in-defense-of-psych-tre...

This was a super good read - thanks!

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#279

Post by hi41 »

This makes me very sad. When I saw him on the show he came across as a person who had achieved great success. Doesn't so much travel and meeting people make one more enlightened? How did this tragedy occur. I for one sometimes feel I should never have been born. My failings are too much to bear. I have hurt a lot of people with my actions, inactions and words.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#280

Post by atmanthedog »

wavefunction wrote: post #90
stult wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely the mental anguish that drives someone to take their own life qualifies as a mental illness. We are not talking about someone who chose to die rather than continuing a painful fight against a terminal illness. Maybe it's rational to take your own life if you are suffering so deeply from depression. Maybe that's a choice we should respect. But that respect doesn't mean that the underlying suffering isn't an ill…

>We are not talking about someone who chose to die rather than continuing a painful fight against a terminal illness I am afraid you don't understand chronic depression. At all.

Actually, I thought the post you were responding to was quite insightful. Depression can be chronic, debilitating and painful, but it definitely is not terminal. Terminal implies that there is a highly predictable progression of the disease that inevitably results in death. I think the parent was trying to say we can easily see why terminal patients consider suicide, as they have a fairly determined remaining life, but we should also extend that same sympathy and understanding to those who have conditions which are chronic and painful, but not necessarily determinative of remaining lifespan.
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