90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies • Hacker News Board

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#271

Post by commandlinefan » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 8:22 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #204

commandlinefan wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Remote work hasn't taken off on a large scale Which is fortunate for any US or European citizen who hopes to ever find employment again.

I'm not worried with the competition from abroad. Culture is an issue (both from the contractor and the hiring sides), quality is another (in some places).

> culture is an issue

maybe in theory, but every company I've ever even heard of has been more than happy to throw together almost any random group of people regardless of culture (or even language) as long as they had the right credentials and expect for culture issues to sort themselves out and good quality to appear. But if consistent culture is the important thing... it's a lot easier to find a homogeneous culture in Hyderabad, India than it is in San Francisco, CA (of all places).

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#272

Post by timr » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 8:30 PM UTC

sampo wrote: post #268

timr wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is how Tokyo has funded new commuter rail lines." Japan also runs a massive defecit relative to GDP (~250% vs our ~100% value). They spend like drunken sailors on public infrastructure.

Like the article explains, Tokyo's rail system is privately owned and operated.

I was talking about all of Japan, not just Tokyo. In any case, some of the lines are private, some aren't, and many were privatized after construction. The Tokyo Metro, in particular, was almost entirely built using public funds, and become "private" in 2004:

"Tokyo Metro is operated by Tokyo Metro Co., Ltd. (東京地下鉄株式会社 Tōkyō Chikatetsu Kabushiki-gaisha), a private company jointly owned by the Japanese government and the Tokyo metropolitan government.

The company replaced the Teito Rapid Transit Authority (帝都高速度交通営団 Teito Kōsokudo Kōtsū Eidan), commonly known as Eidan or TRTA, on April 1, 2004. TRTA was administered by the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport, and jointly funded by the national and metropolitan governments. It was formed in 1941, although its oldest lines date back to 1927 with the opening of the Tokyo Underground Railway the same year."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Metro

Most Japanese cities' subway systems are not private, and even many of the "private" train lines were built using extensive public subsidy.

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#273

Post by nerfhammer » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 8:33 PM UTC

csisvunit wrote: post #262

conanbatt wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow this law is so ridiculous, it basically applies to most the stock. I don't think most people enjoy this benefit of rent control, it wouldn't make sense to rent out properties. I wonder what is the effective rent control rate (that which has affected price significantly). Maybe a rental turnover rate would hint at a solution.

rent control is what's keeping san francisco, barely, san francisco. it isnt going away. its also whats keeping my landlord from doubling my rent, thank you very much.

Congratulations, you've got a new kind of arbitrarily allocated ownership.

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#274

Post by _lcnb » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 8:35 PM UTC

eloff wrote: post #270

_lcnb wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very rational thinking for an individual, one I happen to share. However, in a large system, there have to be some practical limits to consider in order to apply this stratagem to a large number of people. Bottlenecks. Like both this traffic jam and number of available positions in the entry / exit funnel of an occupation. All I have is questions, but, could you imagine what % of workers can possibly achieve the opti…

You don't have to worry about everyone unless you're the government. You definitely should work on optimizing your own career path. Two separate problems for different groups of people.

My point was trying to lead toward understanding the problem, not the optics of the problem.

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#275

Post by conanbatt » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 8:37 PM UTC

csisvunit wrote: post #262

conanbatt wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow this law is so ridiculous, it basically applies to most the stock. I don't think most people enjoy this benefit of rent control, it wouldn't make sense to rent out properties. I wonder what is the effective rent control rate (that which has affected price significantly). Maybe a rental turnover rate would hint at a solution.

rent control is what's keeping san francisco, barely, san francisco. it isnt going away. its also whats keeping my landlord from doubling my rent, thank you very much.

People that don't have (effective) rent control do not feel the way you do.

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#276

Post by jasode » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 8:38 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #248

jasode wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Heck pretty much the entirety of Linux and its ecosystem is remote. I'm a full 100% remote worker and I would never bring up "Linux development" as evidence for businesses to adopt remote work. If remote work evangelists want to argue for the benefits of work-from-home, please do not use Linux as an example because it undermines credible business thinking. As I've said before[1] and paste again here: Open source dev…

Developers in open source companies do have finite budgets, do have deadlines and have some pressure to innovate. And yes, they do often work for upstream projects as part of their jobs, pushing for changes they need for their deadlines. Most of open source work is done by companies. And yes, a lot of them with remote workers. Though I agree, I don't expect an iPhone to be made remotely though, hardware is complicate…

>Developers in open source companies do have finite budgets,

Yes, the employees of companies at Intel, RedHat, and IBM contributing to Linux work within a finite budget (paid salaries) but The Linux Kernel itself does not have a budget. If Intel/RH/IBM all stopped funding programmers to work on Linux, the Linux project would still continue with volunteers. It may continue at a slower pace but it would continue nonetheless.

The point remains: Linux kernel remote workers cannot be used as a case study for businesses to adopt remote telecommuting.

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#277

Post by pmiller2 » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 9:02 PM UTC

davidsawyer wrote: post #182

conanbatt wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

75%?? source? That sounds like too much.

Maybe this is what is being referenced: https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-San-Francisco-apart... Though, I don't think this is "rent control" in the NYC sense of the term where rents are kept way under market rate. Rather, it seems to be a set of ordinances around what landlords can and can't do, largely pertaining to rent increases: http://sfrb.org/rent-ordinance

In NYC terms, I believe "rent control" in SF is more akin to "rent stabilization."

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#278

Post by School-Cotton » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 9:11 PM UTC

nathan_long wrote: post #205

kevinconaway wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Videoconferencing introduces friction in to the process. Those meetings must be planned and scheduled. There are no serendipitous hallway or kitchen conversations that flow easily when people are colocated There is also the friction of the software itself. Whiteboarding and freewheeling discussion is possible but it doesn’t have the same feel to it

I agree with all your points. But consider the costs of that colocated time. 3 hours out of a worker's day is a lot - they could either do more work (boo) or be less stressed while they work (yay) without that commute. They'd also have fewer sick days (colds don't do TCP). And the flip side of serendipitous conversations is distracting chatter. Which one affects productivity more? Oh yeah, and office space costs a lo…

Yes if everyone were commuting 3 hours then that would tilt the scales toward telecommuting in a big way.

But 3 hrs daily commute time is still an outlier, even in the Bay Area. Especially since many major companies have shuttles that allow people to use their commute time productively.

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#279

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 9:24 PM UTC

jacobkg wrote: post #3

I commuted 90 minutes each way for a year (120 miles round trip) in SoCal. The time spent driving wasn't that bad; I spent that time listening to books on Audible. The problem was everything else that had to give because I was spending that time driving. I couldn't cook dinner or spend much time with friends. It was tough to stay after work or develop friendships with coworkers because we were so geographically separ…

[deleted]

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#280

Post by drag0nballz » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 9:56 PM UTC

conanbatt wrote: post #94

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #38

Part of me is still trying to understand why the housing shortage in the Bay Area is so severe. I understand NIMBYism from the homeowner's perspective, but there are a lot of renters in the SF Bay. SF is 63% renters, and should be able to outnumber NIMBY homeowners easily to have a lot more dense housing built. Alameda County is in 2nd place at 47% renters [1], so only a small percentage of homeowners need convincing…

Because renters dont vote. They either dont have residency, are foreigners, or live transiently. I think it is a terrible strategy to try to convince homeowners that its best for them to forego clear economic benefits for blurry future profits. The solution is land value tax: just remove city sales taxes and add a tax on land. That will make low density units more expensive, the tax burden is relieved from the renter…

Renters do vote (I'm a renter, rent a house in Oakland, before that rented a place in San Francisco for 13 years). Buuuuuuuuuuut, that place was rent controlled. So it didn't seem like an issue to me. SB827 would have made my Bart commute worse but it seemed like the right thing to do.