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Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

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Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#271

Post by sah2ed »

adventured wrote: post #132
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I had never heard of this bill before today. Who was going to tell you about it? Time, NYT, CNN, WaPo? Nope.

Oh they told you about it, they were favorable to it: [Feb 14 2018] "Don’t Let Criminals Hide Their Data Overseas" https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/14/opinion/data-overseas-leg... [Mar 5 2018] "A promising solution is the Cloud (Clarifying Lawful Overseas Use of Data) Act, introduced by a bipartisan coalition in the Senate last month." https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-global-game-of-wha...

In fairness, your links are opinion pieces not staff reporting.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#272

Post by pmyteh »

nickpp wrote: post #238
quotemstr wrote: post #68

I am fucking sick and fucking tired of people interfering with the free choice of individuals in any effort to "fix" society and "help" people. Lawmakers and advocates, have some epistemic humility and acknowledge that your own perspective may be mistaken. Not everything is oppression. Not every activity is injustice. Sometimes, people just fucking disagree.

This is the natural consequence of willingly giving so much money and power to our "big" governments. Surprise, surprise - they will use it.

Governments have regulated human relationships for as long as there have been governments. Sex was under ecclesiastical law in medieval and early modern Europe, and adultery and prostitution have been criminalised and/or regulated from the early days of the American colonies.

"Big" government is a relatively recent phenomenon in human history; this long predates it.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#273

Post by tajen »

golergka wrote: post #206
tajen wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the key aspects of prostitution is it provides an alternative outcome to marriage. Why else would a man step into marriage where 100% rules have been thoughtfully designed against him (except love, for as long as it lasts), if he could last a few years longer by using prostitution... Heck, even sex dolls are being forbidden, even though they cause absolutely no harm to humans (a sex doll house is being closed…

You know that you can have consensual sexual relationships outside of marriage, right? They don't even have to be exclusive. Seriously, dude, if you're a "hungry man", open Tinder or just go to a local hook up bar. Hooking up for a one night stand is trivial.

Yes I know, but there’s a massive societal expectation that it’s ok for a woman to beat her boyfriend if he cheated on her, even if it’s not married.

And “cheating” is up to the solipsism of the woman to decide, anything between kissing and looking at a girl on the street and thinking about a woman is considered cheating, at least because society believes the woman at face value.

So no, casual relationships are, depending on the subject, no different from marriage, juges recognize men as fathers even in casual relationships, and there’s no way today to make the contract clear with a woman today. Hence, prostitution would contractualize the casualness of the relationship and it’s not allowed today.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#274

Post by austincheney »

quotemstr wrote: post #68

I am fucking sick and fucking tired of people interfering with the free choice of individuals in any effort to "fix" society and "help" people. Lawmakers and advocates, have some epistemic humility and acknowledge that your own perspective may be mistaken. Not everything is oppression. Not every activity is injustice. Sometimes, people just fucking disagree.

They should stop enforcing laws about driving while intoxicating. It really cramps the style of some people I know. They should also stop regulating messaging and advertising on pharmaceuticals, because freedom of speech.... right?

I get that you complaining about encroachment upon libertarian ideals, but sometimes the complaints are just extreme baseless absurdities.

Maybe I am just having trouble empathizing since I don't go online shopping for sexual encounters.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#275

Post by sah2ed »

zeth___ wrote: post #237
golergka wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that you can have consensual sexual relationships outside of marriage, right? They don't even have to be exclusive. Seriously, dude, if you're a "hungry man", open Tinder or just go to a local hook up bar. Hooking up for a one night stand is trivial.

I look repulsive and my personality isn't much better. Hookups are quite out of the question. But it must be nice to be attractive and have enough money to go out clubbing.

> I look repulsive and my personality isn't much better.

If you tell yourself those things often enough, which frankly sound like what other people have said about you in the past, eventually you start to believe them as fact.

Both looks and personality can be improved upon, even if you are on a budget.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#276

Post by pmyteh »

sah2ed wrote: post #271
adventured wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh they told you about it, they were favorable to it: [Feb 14 2018] "Don’t Let Criminals Hide Their Data Overseas" https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/14/opinion/data-overseas-leg... [Mar 5 2018] "A promising solution is the Cloud (Clarifying Lawful Overseas Use of Data) Act, introduced by a bipartisan coalition in the Senate last month." https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-global-game-of-wha...

In fairness, your links are opinion pieces not staff reporting.

And there's some staff reporting as well, which is actually pretty reasonable. This is from the Post last August:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/08/01...

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#277

Post by drawkbox »

Real sex trafficking is horrible but censorship can end up bad as well and harms the majority of people who aren't doing horrible things.

At least you knew where bad actors were as a sort of honeypot, closing down stuff like this just makes them go dark and spread like roaches. It is messed up to use 'trafficking' to go after porn as well.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#278

Post by superkuh »

abritinthebay wrote: post #152
superkuh wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are operating under the premise here that what youtube/reddit have banned is something illegal and immoral. Reddit literally banned forums for posting good deals they found for firearms and accessories online. And youtube is banning channels that feature people enjoying their completely legal hobby enjoyed by hundreds of millions of people. No, the problem here is that governments and large institutions are using…

Who gives a shit about Reddit? I’m talking in context of the law that is mentioned in the original article

We can talk about that too. In the original article's context you have government regulation using the tiny, mostly irrelevant threat of 'human trafficing' in order to justify imposing their moral standards on people who don't stigmatize sex like all those old religious farts in congress do.

But really it's not even about that. "Think of the children" is and always has been a cover to simply expand federal power.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#279

Post by [deleted] »

hellofunk wrote: post #269
sersi wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is key. I strongly believe that legalization is the only answer to the problem. Driving things underground is only going to cause more issues and abuse to the sex workers. It's kind of ironic when in France, for example, a law gets passed criminalizing the customers while the sex workers go in the street to protest that law saying that it will create more abuse (and one year after, they were right). Trying to st…

> I strongly believe that legalization is the only answer to the problem. This appears to be a popular thesis among the commenters on this page. But your hunch is not proven by the realities of countries that have legalized prostitution. As I've commented elsewhere here, all you have to do is study the laws of prostitution elsewhere in the world to understand that they have little to no influence on sex trafficking.…

[deleted]

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#280

Post by pbhjpbhj »

mnm1 wrote: post #197
SeeDave wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In defense of the "scorched earth approach or nothing" folks: from my perspective... it's a completely and totally human response to faceless, blameless, unapproachable (from their perspective) perpetrators and facilitators of systematic abuse and exploitation of innocent and vulnerable people. If you've ever felt frustrated at an IVR system for routine tasks such as banking, restaurant reservations, canceling a gym…

> That said, I really wish that I could come forward with a solution to the online sex trafficking problem. Start by legalizing prostitution and removing the black market. That won't end all trafficking, but will end a lot and will make it much easier to go after the remaining illegal black market as it's now been separated from the legal market. Comment about how people who don't learn are doomed to repeat history h…

It's much easier to hide illegally activity that mirrors legal activity than it is to hide illegal activity where all the surrounding paraphernalia is direct evidence. Your assertion that legalisation of prostitution will lead to less trafficking of people seems naive to me - you create a larger market and allow people to easily hide.
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