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Uber self-driving trucks are now moving cargo for Uber Freight customers

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Re: Uber self-driving trucks are now moving cargo for Uber Freight customers

#271
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage of a trucking company’s costs do you think are paid to the driver? It won’t lower shipping costs that much.

There's plenty of surveys on this[1]. In this one driver wages and benefits make up around 40% of total cost per mile. That's why self-driving trucks are so lucrative. [1] PDF warning, see page 23 http://atri-online.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/ATRI-Opera...

This is a great resource, but there are a few things wrong:

1. Fuel prices were low in 2015 and have been rising since then, so 39% of marginal costs is likely a peak.

2. The chart you referenced is only for marginal costs, and doesn't include fixed costs associated with a trucking company. The actual percentage of driver pay to the overall operating cost of a trucking company will be lower once fixed costs are factored in.

3. Automated truck companies will also want to capture a fraction of that 30-40% that is paid to drivers.

So in the end, shipping costs will likely drop in the 10-20% range, which is substantial, but it isn't enough to be revolutionary.

My point wasn't to the value created by having automated trucks, but to counter the point that shipping costs would drop significantly.

Also, since shipping costs are a small percentage of the price of most consumer goods, everyday purchases will not be affected much either.

Re: Uber self-driving trucks are now moving cargo for Uber Freight customers

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Stimulate the economy" and "provide prosperity to some billionaires" correlates very well. :-/

Watch in amazement as the hivemind downvotes factual statements.

If you want to avoid downvotes from “the hivemind”, you'll have to post more substantively.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Uber self-driving trucks are now moving cargo for Uber Freight customers

#273
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Upon choosing a career, you should consider the longevity of that career. Isn't it lucky we humans are so very good at predicting the future!? When I was taking computer vision courses little more than a decade ago, self driving cars were pure science fiction. Part of me hopes software development is the next job we automate away, just so everyone in forums like this who are so impressed with their own excellent li…

It's not far from it. Software development is in small company with respect to the need for constant re-education and skill maintenance. The vast majority of developers with skills from just 10 years ago are wholly unemployable right now.

There's a shortage of COBOL developers that are needed to maintain and update legacy financial mainframes that still don't make economic sense to replace since they operate at critical infrastructure points 24/7 and over the years have become pretty bulletproof.

Replacing these systems is extremely difficult since they're so relied on a replacement needs to be nearly flawless form the start. If you stumble upon on a bug in your international wire transfer code you could be messing up a $10 billion international aid wire that was meant for hundreds of factories.

Re: Uber self-driving trucks are now moving cargo for Uber Freight customers

#274
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rich get richer and everyone else gets screwed. Not actually true. a more accurate telling is: the rich get richer and the poor get richer too. You may commenting on the fact that the rich are getting richer FASTER than the poor are getting richer, and that's an interesting phenomenon to comment on, but it is undeniable that everyone is getting richer, almost regardless how you slice the data. Worldwide, extrem…

I have always wondered how we can reconcile that things "are" objectively so great and yet "seem" subjectively so bad. In my experience both online and off, there is a pessimism about work, poverty, and basic security that persists (or is even getting worse) despite these changes. To my eyes, it has to be larger than just the state of the media. We have a few of things we can quantify, and that are often brought out…

> how we can reconcile that things "are" objectively so great and yet "seem" subjectively so bad

Because one of the things that has been fueling GDP growth is disintermediating community and family support systems. Health care spending is up because you don’t have a family home where the older generation slowly ends up and where the younger generations can share elder care burdens. You don’t have people cooking for the extended family. You don’t have neighborhood sharing of homemaking tasks. Etc.

These things have been disintermediated in favor of nuclear family and individual solutions provided by commercial providers. Because that leads to GDP growth and GDP growth drives culture.

But even though you might be getting a slightly bigger piece of a much bigger pie, and even though fewer people might be starving, a much higher percentage of your personal self care burden is falling 100% on your shoulders. And that means you have more pressure on your earning potential, which means you are more sensitive to changes in employment.

Essentially, a larger portion of your well-being is bottlenecked through your checking account. So even though you may be “more taken care of”, the subjective (and possibly objective) precariousness of your well-being is much higher.

Re: Uber self-driving trucks are now moving cargo for Uber Freight customers

#275
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite being a coder, I almost desire tech work to become replaced by machines at some point, with the only options of retraining to be prohibitively hard and leaving us in the dreadful position of these workers, just so I can watch people with attitudes like this get it handed to them. The attitudes we have towards the unskilled, low-skilled, or those who are being replaced and made redundant by the systems we deve…

I don’t really understand you mate, what are you suggesting, stop technical progress? Sure it harsh and one day we will be next but so be it, it’s life.

Did you read my comment? Progress is awesome and inevitable, but how we deal with it and how we deal with the people who's careers are made redundant by it is what we need to discuss. We need to give people options, whether that's retraining and financial support, universal basic income, or whatever. Currently the money just goes upwards - the progress, innovation are owned by the elite as intellectual property. We need to find a different way where the fruits of this progress are distributed to benefit humanity as a whole, not used to further exploit the masses.

Re: Uber self-driving trucks are now moving cargo for Uber Freight customers

#276
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who have been driving our cargo around for whole generations What does that add to the argument? Is there some inherited right to work in a specific line of work? Also, how many generations can that be? 3-4?

Yeah, especially that self driving cars have been in the news for years now. Everyone know they will take over. There is plenty of time for people to retrain to something else. Unless they are lazy and don't want to...

Or you know, humanity is terrible at retraining people - that the costs of retraining are so high that the simple straight path idea everyone has is dumped on contact with reality?

Remember that the greatest advance to education was the internet.

You could now have good quality, always available, free, subject material, from reputed institutions, with interactive media, perfected explanations, testing and so on.

And despite all this - they have a 10% completion rate.

I have said this multiple times, and unless people are actively looking at this system they miss that re-educating and re-training people is extremely lossy and unlikely.

And now you have people out of a job, and they have to re-train, while also taking care of bills and family?

People tend to forget - our best training system is to take young humans with no responsibilities, mostly spare time and keep them in training centers for the vast majority of their day in childhood.

And even there we fail.

And finally - please come to India or any third world country. It should disabuse people of the idea of the fully autonomous self driving car.

The only way you get level 5 autonomy is by controlling the road and entry to it.

It's exceedingly easy to see a bunch of cows or protesters actively hamper fully alert human drivers.

Re: Uber self-driving trucks are now moving cargo for Uber Freight customers

#277

For those concerned with jobs to be eliminated, it might not be as big a problem as we think for the trucking industry. "Over the next 10 years, he said, we need to attract almost 900,000 new people to the industry. Demographics is a big part of the problem. ATA’s research arm, the American Transportation Research Institute, recently updated its demographic data on drivers and found some 57% of drivers are 45 or olde…

Re training will fail. This is the major fatal flaw of the current economic system.

Supporting data: The writing has been on the wall in glowing neon ever since the advent of MOOCs.

MOOCS have many near magical attributes that we have long sought in education

1) The students regularly self select into the courses they want, as opposed to schools where you don't have a choice.

2) Courses are free

3) Courses are high quality, and improving with testing

4) Courses are media rich, and use multiple types of stimulation for stronger impact when studying

5) Honorary mention - gamification

6) Material is always available, at any time - you are not limited to teachers being available

7) You even have online communities you can reach out to, to discuss your work

And yet they have about a 10% completion rate.

Let me underline - thats a 10% rate with a self selected pool of interested applicants.

MOOCs are literally magic.

IF you are talking about re-training then you are missing the Big Picture: The re-training and skill up revolution has come and gone.

We should currently be seeing a large rise in the number of people who are self actualizing, and learning skills in a wider range of industries.

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In economic terms, the failure rate of MOOCs indicate that retraining attempts will result in very poor retrenchment of workers.

Most jobs lost will result in under-employment, increasing the concentration of capital in the hands of capital holders.

This will have a knock on effect on the America old style university system, as this will become the only path to a higher paying career over poor paying service sector work.

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The retraining model which will work will require people to be allowed to train non stop on material, and the ability to focus and work on a subject till they have gained the necessary mastery.

I doubt this will be possible, because a family earner cannot take weeks off to master a skill only to have to hunt for jobs in a market where younger students already abound.

Consider how many people want to get healthier, apply to gyms - and then stop going.

Re-phrase the retraining problem as an attempt to get all of humanity (or a slice of it) fit.

Also since the tools of technology allow for hitherto impossible levels of orchestration and conversation management, the barrier to outrage driven organization and outrage has been set much higher, which will lead to less negotiation power during the eventual distribution of wealth

Re: Uber self-driving trucks are now moving cargo for Uber Freight customers

#278
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, while you’re joking the original idea of communism and what I’ve been taught about Lenin was about excatly this - communism is inevitable because of technical progress. Call it what you want - universal income, handouts, we will end up in communism.

And yet all implementations of communism has failed so does this mean technical progress eventually leads to societal failure? Also I believe we will end up with socialism, not communism.

> And yet all implementations of communism has failed so does this mean technical progress eventually leads to societal failure?

Only if you believe that once an attempt at something has failed, all future attempts will also fail.

> Also I believe we will end up with socialism, not communism.

Socialism is worker control of the means of production, and is an intermediate step along the route to communism, a fully classless and stateless society.

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