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The State of Atom's Performance

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Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#271

Post by oneweekwonder »

keymone wrote: post #233
tigershark wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the connection between browser fragmentation and coffescript syntax? Coffescript was born to have a lighter JavaScript-like syntax, not to remove browsers fragmentation.

the connection is between fragmentation and claim that ecmascript and js 1.8 were released and everything magically became great in december 2009 as was implied by the grandparent.

> magically became great in 2009 as was implied by the grandparent.

I implied nothing, I asked you a question. Might have been a bit open ended but you made a claim that did not reflect with my reality. So I did a reality check.

If there was a "magic" moment I will give chrome released late 2008 and firebug 1.4 released early 2009 the attribution for a turning point in webdev.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#272

Post by oneweekwonder »

keymone wrote: post #211
oneweekwonder wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was nice ten years ago when JavaScript was absolutely horrendous but not now. ECMAScript 5 was released in December 2009, Coffeescript first appeared the same month with release 0.1.0. What was absolutely horrendous about ECMAScript 5? edit: Javascript 1.8 shipped with Firefox 3 in June 2008.

i don't even.. for people making these claims there's just no way to convey how horrific js development was until quite recently (it still is far worse than most popular languages out there tbh) other than inventing a time machine and sending you there, but then it's a kind of punishment i wouldn't want upon my worst enemy. browser fragmentation rings any bells? were you actually doing js dev back then?

> were you actually doing js dev back then?

Actually started webdev in 2004 php3 and basic js. Back then the joke was "nobody know how to code js, everybody just copied this one piece of code and mutated it from there".

It sadness me to think such behavior is more entrenched in todays development environment with sites like stack-overflow.

Don't get me wrong I'm grateful that sites like SO exist. I'm also grateful that when I had to learn the ropes or solve "hard problems", I could not turn to my browser. Like I do today; every fsck'ing time; because it is easier and I'm lazy.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#273

Post by keymone »

oneweekwonder wrote: post #271
keymone wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the connection is between fragmentation and claim that ecmascript and js 1.8 were released and everything magically became great in december 2009 as was implied by the grandparent.

> magically became great in 2009 as was implied by the grandparent. I implied nothing, I asked you a question. Might have been a bit open ended but you made a claim that did not reflect with my reality. So I did a reality check. If there was a "magic" moment I will give chrome released late 2008 and firebug 1.4 released early 2009 the attribution for a turning point in webdev.

> I implied nothing

X was horrible ten years ago -> but X' was actually released 10 years ago, what was horrible about X'?

sorry, there is no way for me to interpret that other than implying that my statement was false.

there were multiple magic moments, but js didn't stop being horrible on daily basis for another couple years. having chrome debugger or firebug didn't save you from having to support internet explorer, did it?

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#274

Post by jimbokun »

rolypolypup wrote: post #184
Waterluvian wrote: post #13

I am not badmouthing JavaScript or bandwagoning on the "Electron is the devil. Long live native apps!" But I've been wondering more and more, especially through my own experienced biases at work: how much of the, "we chose x because y and z" is retroactive justification for the simple truth: "I wanted to use the technologies that make me enjoy my job." I often have to fight with myself to pick the right tool for the…

I wish engineers and computer scientists would pay attention to that gut reaction more often. Programming really at some level is as much about translating human ideas into physical computations as anything. In this regard, it is a fundamentally psychological process, as much about the programmer as the computer. There's a sort of psychological-cognitive -> math -> physics process, and I often feel as if the emphasis…

"There's good reasons for this, but it's resulted in a sort of blind spot that often comes out as people just preferring languages like python or javascript or whatever, and not wanting to acknowledge that those fuzzy, poorly understood preference processes are driving development as much as the choice of algorithm or hardware constraints."

One language that openly acknowledges it is designed first and foremost with psychological factors and ergonomics in mind is Ruby:

"For me the purpose of life is partly to have joy. Programmers often feel joy when they can concentrate on the creative side of programming, So Ruby is designed to make programmers happy."

https://github.com/alexch/ruby_notes/blob/master/ruby-intro....

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#275

Post by sctb »

whatyoucantsay wrote: post #148
jamesmcintyre wrote: post #128

Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? I along with many of my fellow engineers use Atom everyday and love it. Sure it has some shortcomings but if anything this retrospective from the Atom team shows that they're trying to address those shortcomings at a rapid clip. I love that it's an entirely open source system and that it is written…

> Why has Hacker News become such a hotbed for cynicism, ridicule and snark by which almost none comes constructive ideas? The moderators have almost certainly played a part. Selectively permitting snark from the in-group is easy in the short run, but eventually incurs a cost to the community.

Snark is against the guidelines, and I can tell you that the moderators find it dreadfully boring, whomever the source. We could use your help if you come across highly-ranked snark to please downvote, flag, or email hn@ycombinator.com. We don't see everything on the site, but we do read all of those emails.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#276

Post by eropple »

ta4399 wrote: post #200
eropple wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VS Code was my first not-Sublime, not-vim editor, but...I really, really missed my four-up display with four editors in a square configuration. I went to Atom because of that and because of VS Code's inability to keep a pane open even with no tabs (just because nothing's in it doesn't mean I want it closed ).

In case you haven't tried it, have you opened new windows (Ctrl+Shift+N)? I know it's not what you asked for but it's how I use it for a similar work flow. They don't close when I close the last file.

I want a shared drawer across everything. Anything else eats screen real estate.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#277

Post by taeric »

Veedrac wrote: post #176
taeric wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only one of those I'm not sure on is the expose one. The rest seem like they already exist in emacs. It is probably mentioned in every editor thread, but org-mode is enough magic with an editor to mystify most developers. Syntax highlighting for multiple languages in a single file is already stretching most boundaries.

Forgive me for being skeptical. Where is this git-time-machine equivalent?

Apologies for the slow response.

I don't know on the actual charts, as I just don't use that sort of thing. Seeing anything git related and I think magit. Pretty much period. That is, I didn't see the chart.

You can do graphics in emacs, though. I typically just use it to show email and inline images for org-mode.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#278

Post by ExactoKnight »

oblio wrote: post #255
ExactoKnight wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using the Mac version. Started with it today. It felt like getting all the benefits of RubyMine without the learning curve of needing to learn its non-Sublime macros, thanks to Visual Studio's option to automatically map key commands to mimic Vim, Sublime or Atom. Not sure how difficult extending it is, but on day one in their app store I found all the important ruby bindings I needed to replicate what I value mo…

You mean Visual Studio Code? I feel we're talking about different things here...

Eh, yeah, I guess that's what I meant. Didn't know there was a distinction? This: https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/visual-studio-mac/

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#279

Post by mitchty »

aftbit wrote: post #67
goalieca wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emacs starts reasonably quick and it is written in a very extensible language.

I don't know if this is still true, but for many years emacs used a horrible hack called "unexec" to obtain this startup performance. https://lwn.net/Articles/673724/

It was only true for glibc as well, and its no longer true as unexec got ripped out of glibc recently as only emacs was using it.

Re: The State of Atom's Performance

#280

Post by oneweekwonder »

keymone wrote: post #273
oneweekwonder wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> magically became great in 2009 as was implied by the grandparent. I implied nothing, I asked you a question. Might have been a bit open ended but you made a claim that did not reflect with my reality. So I did a reality check. If there was a "magic" moment I will give chrome released late 2008 and firebug 1.4 released early 2009 the attribution for a turning point in webdev.

> I implied nothing X was horrible ten years ago -> but X' was actually released 10 years ago, what was horrible about X'? sorry, there is no way for me to interpret that other than implying that my statement was false. there were multiple magic moments, but js didn't stop being horrible on daily basis for another couple years. having chrome debugger or firebug didn't save you from having to support internet explorer…

> save you from having to support internet explorer, did it?

I showed IT how we can keep firefox updated on all our machines using AD.

External sites said best viewed with firefox and mentioned ie6/ie8 a steph-child.

My solution not acceptable for everybody, but my employers were happy and I could continue being productive without worrying to much about ie.

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