Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I consulted at a health insurance company (a Blue Cross Blue Shield licensee with 1000 employees, 200 IT staff) about 10 years ago, I was absolutely horrified that the system of record for health care plan data was Excel spreadsheets. They had staff who would update the claims processing system based on thousands of spreadsheets. When you called customer service, the CSR app would auto-open the member's plan inf…
They should be careful though: excel allows a maximum of 1,000,000 rows. I have seen more than one major crisis occur when a spreadsheet ran out of space, yet all of it was needed together to do daily business.
Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs
271–280 of 435 posts
Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a hard question to answer and depends on your size and what you really need. For small companies, Excel may really be all that you need. But at a certain size, you might want to use something like PowerBI instead since it will also pull directly from the database and you can share the dashboards you create very easily. Large companies like the article are referring to might be able to get by with PowerBI (Micr…
The same ETL functionality that's in Power BI is also available in Excel 2010+ as "Power Query".
Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs
#273There is currently simply no viable substitute. (And don't tell me LibreOffice). Excel's mindshare is off the charts in the finance world.
Even if LibreOffice was anywhere close - it wouldn't matter...the finance staff wants what they already know & since they approve the $$$ they usually get what they want.
For certain tasks other applications may be more suitable, but as a general swiss army knife it's here to stay
We use Google sheets at work too - almost exclusively for shared trackers though which don't require any serious functionality.
Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs
#274I would argue that the most commonly used programming language is Excel. But few of the people using it realize they're programming. It's a brilliant reactive data programming model that makes intuitive sense to non-technical users. They feel empowered to use it to solve problems right now with a computer. They experiment with it, try things, Google how to do more things- just like any programmer does. And they feel…
Every single department in any company can benefit from knowing it well.
The problem is getting people comfortable and competent to know it well.
This is where I think google sheets fucking failed: they should have made an effort to make sure every single gmail user had a tutorial to know how to empower their curiosities and interests via google sheets.
Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs
#275When you show up to work on wall street, your new buddies will yank the mouse out of your machine and remove the F1 key. Then you can begin your apprenticeship with a fresh perspective.
The point is, you can be incredibly productive in excel against a very large problem space. It can't handle GB datasets, but once you have filtered down to a manageable size you can answer questions via ad-hoc analysis, automate financial reporting documents, solve multivariable regressions, run machine learning algorithms (see 'Data Smart') etc. with aplomb. I understand the objections to the data model and its inappropriate uses, but excel can take raw data from disparate sources to finished documentation for regulatory requirements and helps you automate most of that -- I don't think the finance industry is going to move away from it. I certainly don't perceive an understanding of the costs involved with building a different way.
>“I don’t want financial planning people spending their time importing and exporting and manipulating data, I want them to focus on what is the data telling us,” Mr. Garrett said
I hear this complaint all the time from business leadership, Mr. Garrett doesn't seem to understand that extracting/munging/preprocessing and then analyzing data is inextricable from the end product which is visibility and understanding at the business leader level. There isn't a follow-up to say Mr. Garret is hiring data engineers and software developers to serve the now-liberated 'data focusers'. I'm very skeptical that these sentiments are different than the past, or are a signal of changing times ahead.
Lastly, I'd to share the following funny snippet from the reprehensible though satirical leveraged sellout blog:
>I turned and tapped Josh on the shoulder to get his attention. I didn’t say a word, but my face said “Yo…yeah you, McKposer.” We locked eyes. I slowly and dramatically reached for my mouse cable. Staring him down, I methodically unplugged it from my computer’s USB port. The cable came out slowly but smoothly and with it’s final, climactic release, I heard Josh gulp with fear.
>I continued to glare at him as I started to “fly around.” My eyeballs burned through his unweathered, 60-hour-a-week-when-he-should-have-done-90 face as I hid and unhid sheets and conditionally formatted and applied validation to cells with triple nested conditional and indirect functions and then culminated by on-the-fly writing a macro that took my data and made it into a Marimekko (and we don’t even use that shit!). I never turned to look at the screen, and my eyes never left his.
Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs
#276What should we use, then? I desperately need some tool I can tell non-tech people to use where they can input arbitrary structured data. After the data is there, in any format the user wants, as long as it is structured somehow, millions of programs can be written to use that data and combine it, but somehow the data has to be written FIRST. It is not feasible to come up with the schema, write a software based on tha…
> It is not feasible to come up with the schema, write a software based on that schema and then give it to the non-tech people. Would it be feasible if you only had to write the schema and the software were generated based on the schema?
I was working on something like that based on https://postgrest.com/, but I'm now reconsidering the approach.
Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
Completely agree. It's common to tell kids (and everyone) that they need to "learn to code." That is what Excel already is! And it's incredibly powerful, especially if you don't have any other coding skills. But, of course, it's messy. When tens of millions of people can each write their own programs and easily modify them and change them to suit their own needs without needing to recompile or anything, then you get…
> ...and, in fact, that's also what you'd get if you taught everyone how to program Python in high school instead of Excel. I disagree. Python leaves a readable instruction set, while Excel buries the logic in an opaque two dimensional grid of cells (plus or minus atrocious VBA). I think this gives a better ladder for people to improve their skills to the point of not producing unmaintainable garbage.
Not everyone structures programs in the same way, or puts functions in easily found locations, or names things usefully, or even approaches the problem in a way that makes sense to the majority of other people. For a concrete example, see this[1].
> Excel buries the logic in an opaque two dimensional grid of cells
It would be trivial to represent excel grid formulas as a set of predefined functions, or a special data structure that you register functions in, and then it could be in textual form. It wouldn't make it any easier to reason about, but then again control flow isn't always easy to reason about when a program is split into many different objects and functions, until you've internalized a fair amount of the program. Spreadsheets give people a very limited, but structured output and a very limited, but easily reasoned about way or processing. It's different than "normal" programming, but that difference allows for very intuitive use.
> I think this gives a better ladder for people to improve their skills to the point of not producing unmaintainable garbage.
How much work has been put into making spreadsheets easier to share with other people? I'm not sure the same culture has existed for spreadsheets as for programming, where people have needed to share and reason about complex algorithms and data structures. If it had, I'm sure we'd have much more in the way of how to structure your excel well so it can easily be consumed by others, or yourself in the future (if it doesn't already exist, which it may).
Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs
#278This article seems to typify what PG was talking about in his submarine article [1]. [1] - www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
Points for their SEO/clickbait headline: it hooked me... this time (-1 one added to my personal WSJ lifetime value calculation)
Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs
#279The core complaint of not having a single source of truth seems more about how the company handles data/filing rather than Excel itself. Maybe I'm a bit bias having used Excel my entire career and very dependent on it, but everytime I've seen companies steer away from the desktop application with 0365/sheets/tableau its simply not as useful for adhoc data analysis and reporting.
>its simply not as useful for adhoc data analysis and reporting. You wanna know what's even more useful? Code notebooks. I store everything from my sql queries to my processing pipeline to my models, and my vizualizations. Most notebooks have slide-show modes now so your presentation to business stakeholders is simple to prepare as well, and with the right plotting packages you can draw interactive charts that do all…
In practice what I've seen is that IT and finance departments don't even let business analysts write their own SQL queries for fear that they'll write bad ones that bring the database server to its knees.
Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs
#280The phrases "avoid data silos" and "we want single source of truth" have been used repeatedly about Excel misuse/abuse/overuse for 20+ years. The WSJ story talks about the complaint but not about the underlying tension between data redundancy vs data manipulation. Excel endures because it's the non-programmer's REPL for data. Like a Lisp REPL, using Excel is nimble and has an instant feedback loop. Click "A-Z" to sor…
Got a complex work stream? Got thousand small problems that needs to be slowly figured out over 50 different main topics? Got a team of 2,50 or 1000? No problem.
1. Just set up a bunch of jira entries while tagging them with the same labels
2. set up filters on these labels.
3. Set up dashboard(s) that give a complete realtime/update to any inquiring user.
Need to report status? No problem, screenshot of the Dashboard and done.
It's really great tbh.