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How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

nytimes.com

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Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#271

Post by joewee »

flexie wrote: post #114
notmtaemployee wrote: post #38

The MTA's problems begin and end at a weak senior management unwilling to standup to Cuomo's frivolous micromanagement and a transit union unwilling to modernize. Politicians should be pushing for serious procurement and labor work rule reforms, otherwise the systemic managerial and operational deficiencies will ensure that the deterioration of service we see now will repeat it self in 5 to 10 years, regardless of ho…

When is the last time America built any impressive infrastructure? I'd say in the 70s. Most airports, most of the interstate highway network, most subway systems, bridges, tunnels, and dams were built from the 1930s and on to the 1970s. The railroads are even older. And after that; Silence. It's like you didn't even care to maintain it. First time I arrived in America, I was taken aback by how old and run down everyt…

A lot of American infrastructure was built during the new deal era when the federal government had a lot more desire to implement national projects, I don’t think that is still the case. The states are expected to build and manage their infrastructure, some states, like WA, are better than others.

Other countries where you see better infrastructure it’s because the national government has the power to drive the project forward (at least at the time).

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#272

Post by jcranberry »

flexie wrote: post #114
notmtaemployee wrote: post #38

The MTA's problems begin and end at a weak senior management unwilling to standup to Cuomo's frivolous micromanagement and a transit union unwilling to modernize. Politicians should be pushing for serious procurement and labor work rule reforms, otherwise the systemic managerial and operational deficiencies will ensure that the deterioration of service we see now will repeat it self in 5 to 10 years, regardless of ho…

When is the last time America built any impressive infrastructure? I'd say in the 70s. Most airports, most of the interstate highway network, most subway systems, bridges, tunnels, and dams were built from the 1930s and on to the 1970s. The railroads are even older. And after that; Silence. It's like you didn't even care to maintain it. First time I arrived in America, I was taken aback by how old and run down everyt…

Historically, America has a very pragmatic and cheap culture. I think a lot of the stuff hasn't really been upgraded because it, well, just works. When there's competition and impetus for moving forward, America moves forward very quickly. Otherwise, as long as whatever we have is good enough to reach our goals, we tend to sit on it.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#273

Post by kodablah »

Tyrek wrote: post #253
kodablah wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit late here, but I'll give my opinionated answer anyways. The public sector is overall of lower human employee quality than the private sector. A high quality person that wants to get something done without a ton of red tape just doesn't stay in government work for the most part. It's not salary related or even money related, it's accountability related. Fixing that requires firing many entrenched people which will…

You haven't answer the core question, which is: Why can London do this, while NYC cannot? Is there less red tape with accountability in London?

Maybe, I am not familiar. I was addressing why Americans were so bad at public . I would appreciate someone familiar commenting on the competency of English government employees and politicians vs their private sector. Specifically if the gap is as wide as it is in the US, which I would assume it's not if anything gets done. It's pretty simple really, incompetence cannot accomplish things requiring competence; not really country specific.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#274

Post by rayiner »

Spooky23 wrote: post #263
flexie wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you exclude tiny Prince Edwards Island, the most densely populated Canadian province is Nova Scotia (with 17.4 Canadians per km2). More than 90 percent of Americans live in states have higher population density than the densest populated Canadian province. Only Maine, Oregon, Utah, Kansas, Nevada, Nebraska, Idaho, New Mexico, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming and Alaska are more empty. Those 13 states a…

Statistics don’t tell the story. Look at a population density map of Ontario. 30% of Canadians live in Ontario. About half of Ontarians live in the Toronto metro area alone. Overall about half the population lives in the top ten metro areas. http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/as-sa/97-550...

Statistics do tell the story, but you gotta use the right statistics. Using the population of arbitrary geographical regions (provinces and states) isn't a useful measure. For transit and rail, a useful measure might be something like "population density of a region encompassing 50% of the metro area population."

A single rail line from Quebec City to Winnipeg, through Ottowa, Toronto, and Calgary, with a spur to Edmonton, would cover all eleven of Canada's largest cities, with 30% of its whole population. That's within those municipalities (i.e., people can take local transit to the inter-city rail line). You cannot draw any similar line that encompasses anywhere near that percentage of the U.S. population. Even if you connected America's 11 largest cities, you'd only have about 26 million people (about 8% of the country).

A big reason is that most people who live "in Dallas," for example, don't actually live in the city. Dallas and Ottawa are similar-sized cities of about a million people each. But Ottawa encompasses 70% of its metro area, while Dallas encompasses less than 20% of its metro area. Look at a satellite map of each city. Dallas is sprawl for about 40 miles in each direction from the city center. 40 miles from Ottawa is nothing in every direction (and for the most part, so is 20 miles).

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#275

Post by mullen »

briandear wrote: post #236
smileysteve wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and military spending.

Not true. US military spending as a percentage of GDP is comparable to many countries. In sheer dollars, it’s vastly more, but then so is the GDP. It isn’t like MTA money is being diverted to buy tanks.

No true at all. Of the developed industrialized western nations, not only is the US the highest by total dollars ($611b), it is also the highest by percentage of GDP (3.3% GDP).

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#276

Post by nerdponx »

ascagnel_ wrote: post #264
nerdponx wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the 4/5 between Union Square and 125th St is a sardine can from 7-10 AM and 5-7 PM daily even when they run every 3 minutes or whatever the rush hour gap is.

That's also largely a function of poor/no subway access on the East Side. It took a long time to get the Second Ave. subway running, and that doesn't even come close to servicing Alphabet City. The west side has multiple lines (red & blue, plus the yellow line starting around midtown) while the east side only has the green line (and the yellow line south of Union Sq.).

It's a damn shame the 3rd Ave., Subway was elevated, and they ended up tearing it down. Having the subway on one of the narrowest avenues is crazy to me, and having it be the only subway servicing the east side (which has more avenues than the west, by the way), is even crazier.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#277

Post by lmm »

freeone3000 wrote: post #247
lmm wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state central government bailing out a state-run business is fine. Getting the state transport authority to bail out a business unrelated to transport seems obviously wrong.

Okay, so instead the money should go into general fund, and the money from general fund should pay for the ski resort? I don't see a practical difference.

It makes it a lot clearer to voters what money is going where.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#278

Post by Bartweiss »

rayiner wrote: post #274
Spooky23 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics don’t tell the story. Look at a population density map of Ontario. 30% of Canadians live in Ontario. About half of Ontarians live in the Toronto metro area alone. Overall about half the population lives in the top ten metro areas. http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/as-sa/97-550...

Statistics do tell the story, but you gotta use the right statistics. Using the population of arbitrary geographical regions (provinces and states) isn't a useful measure. For transit and rail, a useful measure might be something like "population density of a region encompassing 50% of the metro area population." A single rail line from Quebec City to Winnipeg, through Ottowa, Toronto, and Calgary, with a spur to Edm…

Yes, thanks for this. I mentioned a few particularly empty provinces, but I think working from state/province level or even county level is a fundamentally misleading approach.

The obvious question is how many infrastructure hubs (cell towers, train stations, highways, etc.) are needed to cover X% of the population. And following that, how closely connected those hubs would be.

Suggestions like "Canadians live near the border, but Americans live near the coast so it's similar" completely ignore that reality. The Acela corridor (D.C. to Boston, including Philadelphia and NYC) is the most efficient population-coverage route I know of in the country, but it can't possibly touch the efficiency of that Quebec City to Winnipeg line. Among other things, America has two coasts, and also vastly less urban density than Canada.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#279

Post by apaprocki »

dionidium wrote: post #237
apaprocki wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The roads are mostly resurfaced on a schedule that has them resurfacing nearly every day of the year. There is just so much more abuse on Manhattan asphalt from large trucks, heavy trucks, cars, construction, etc. that any given individual point can appear run-down, but then look fresh and new as soon as it is cycled through. You don't see many 16m trucks abusing streets in Rome :) http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/mo…

> There is just so much more abuse on Manhattan asphalt from large trucks, heavy trucks, cars "Abuse" is the right word. Perhaps it's worth rethinking how much of this abuse we allow. Giant trucks parading through Manhattan at will, tearing up the pavement, endangering cyclists and pedestrians, and generally lowering quality of life for residents is a policy choice , not some natural and unchangeable fact about the w…

I am all in favor of a congestion tax that was previously proposed (but failed, politics):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congestion_pricing_in_New_York...

I'd actually just settle for enforcement of existing law. 53' trucks are illegal in NYC, as is driving a truck down a street that is not a truck route. The NYPD could generate a lot of income if they simply enforce the laws on the books. You constantly see 53' trucks driving around (they even literally say "53'" on the side) and no one cares... until they make a turn and get stuck and block up traffic for a mile.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#280

Post by John23832 »

magila wrote: post #67
taurath wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't either. It feels like everything we do costs 10x anywhere else for 10x the time. You would think the cost of building a few light rail lines in a city like Seattle would cost less than a cross-town subway in Japan. In my short life I've never seen America really build anything impressive in transportation - BART, the NYC Subway, the interstate highway system, and most of our airports seem like they w…

I think it has a lot to do with the way government in the US is structured, specifically the focus on local representatives. Because US legislators are beholden to voters in a particular locality, any time there's an infrastructure project which receives state and/or federal funding there is tremendous pressure to make it draw as much money as possible into the local economy. This is the classic "bringing home the ba…

The reduction of pork barrel politics took away the carrot... we no realize that we have no stick.
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