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Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

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Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#271

Post by JoshMnem »

jacek wrote: post #123
JoshMnem wrote: post #119

Try ThinkPad + Linux. Amazing environment for programming, $1,000+ cheaper than MBP, nice keyboards, better specs for the price, including several years of at-home next-day repair service.

I agree that Thinkpad + Linux is a great combo (with wonderful keyboards!). However, repair service wasn't that good in my case. Response and shipping was super fast, but my laptop was at their repair center for 2 weeks waiting for a part (battery). I switched to Thinkpad with Linux from Macs 18 months ago. Adapting took maybe two months. I would not like to go back.

Did you get the next-day, at-home repair services? I've used it before and they drove to my house the day after it broke, replaced the motherboard without any questions and got it working again. This laptop was about $1,900, including tax, shipping, and four years of that at-home support. Excellent specs: 24 Gb RAM, etc.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#272

Post by JoshMnem »

leg100 wrote: post #130
jagger27 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> better specs for the price If only the displays were 16:10 or 3:2 and as nice as a MacBook's. Otherwise, yeah, they're better.

I much prefer the display on my t470s to my macbook pro retina (albeit from 2012). Same "retina" resolution, but the matte display makes reading text a pleasure.

Matte screens are ideal. I don't understand why so many computers have glossy screens. It might make stronger colors, but there is glare.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#273

Post by JoshMnem »

guftagu wrote: post #232
JoshMnem wrote: post #119

Try ThinkPad + Linux. Amazing environment for programming, $1,000+ cheaper than MBP, nice keyboards, better specs for the price, including several years of at-home next-day repair service.

But where would I find all my apps like Evernote, Skype, Numi, Tyke, Alfred etc. ?

It's a different workflow. :)

- Org Mode

- Google Hangouts

- There are plenty of calculator options on Linux

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#274

Post by executesorder66 »

heartbreak wrote: post #228
executesorder66 wrote: post #66

> “Hold on,” I said. “If a single piece of dust lays the whole computer out, don't you think that's kind of a problem?” > ... > The Genius shrugged empathetically. He cast around and pointed to a nearby pre-2015 MacBook Pro with relatively thicker keys. "I have one of those," he said apologetically. Wow. That's got to be the worst tech-support I have ever heard of.

What do you expect him to say? He's not an Apple engineer. He didn't design the keyboard. He's a blue-shirt working customer service at an Apple store.

I expect him to say something along the lines of, "I don't know, let me see what I can find out and I'll get back to you."

Imagine your lawn mower broke, and took it to a repair shop. You complain it doesn't switch on. The repair guy says maybe there is a piece of grass that got inside, and that's why it's not working. You say that sounds like a really bad design if a lawn mower can't handle a piece of grass. He says, "Oh, well I use some other model."

How is that even remotely helpful?

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#275

Post by FabHK »

kalleboo wrote: post #266
FabHK wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that even though by default there is some (inexplicable) space left of the escape key on the touchbar, that space still functions as the escape key.

In my case I actually had a completely separate, non-esc button to the left of esc. Screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/InvBvqa.png I'm not sure exactly when it happens, but I think it happens when you have some background context open on the touchbar (like some app's music controls). The X dismisses the bar you have open and then you get esc back. Often there's no esc at all and just the X.

That sounds terrible. Dismiss the window before you can escape??

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#276

Post by pimeys »

mikejmoffitt wrote: post #249
pimeys wrote: post #91

This autumn I finally needed to buy a new laptop and spent some time testing and figuring out which keyboard I like the most. The funny thing was that the only seriously decent laptop keyboard is in a model that has a limited release and will probably sell out in the coming weeks: The ThinkPad 25th anniversary edition. How can it be that to get a seriously good keyboard for programming, I need to get a novelty laptop…

I just received my T25. They are already unavailable in the US. I will soon be making a comparison video between the T25, my X62, and the old X300. I will say that the panel itself is a good panel, 1080p aside. It is like the one in the T450s - good white point, linear constant-current backlight driver (no flickery low-freq PWM!)

I was so lucky to find one from a local computer store. I've been writing code with it now for two days and I must say it's the best laptop I've ever used. The keyboard is just too good, but it's also sturdy, fast and feels nice. And I've had four thinkpads, two macbooks and one asus. T25 might be the pinnacle of laptops for me. Lenovo would be stupid to not continue using these keyboards in some of their models.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#277

Post by Illotus »

kamaal wrote: post #264
kagamine wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When users have to fiddle with settings to do the things they could do before without fiddling, what have you achieved? Apple used to be the UX good guys, now they are the devil in disguise.

>>Apple used to be the UX good guys Apple had one person who was good at UX. And that guy is dead for years now. His product pipeline can't be milked further to make more money. From here onwards its just your usual managers running the show.

Don Norman may be over 80, but not dead I think ;)

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#278

Post by cweiss »

mvdwoord wrote: post #218
rbanffy wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but the touchbar is much better at that specific role. It also opens up different forms of interaction for other applications. The terminal, for instance, has an instant man page key. This is kind of cool. A tiling window manager could have window management special keys. I have a very nice keyboard on my desk at home with, a glorious Unicomp PC122 with 24 function keys. I love it, but I need to confess I never…

The touchbar is worse imo. The problem is the lack of tactile feedback, plus unwanted "keypresses" when your fingers wander over it. If they would have just placed the touchbar above the old row of ESC and Function keys, it could have been good. Now it is just shit.

RE: Lack of haptic feedback - There's an app for that - https://www.haptictouchbar.com/ It's not great (that the feedback is in the touchpad and not the touchbar is disconcerting), but it's better than no feedback.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#279

Post by hereonbusiness »

kagamine wrote: post #268
tasuki wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that you use your native keyboard for programming. I'm Czech, all the Czech programmers I know use English layout for programming.

Here in Norway I have never once seen a non-Scandinavian layout keyboard. Not once. As I'm from the UK I have considered getting a UK or US keyboard for coding at home, but at work it isn't an option, mostly because we all have standard equipment and because ø,æ & å.

The actual keyboard language is irrelevant since the layout is defined in software. You can just change the layout to US or UK and learn to touch type it. The US layout is lot nicer if you write a lot of code in my opinion.

You can also set up multiple layouts and switch via OS shortcut when needed.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#280

Post by ramses0 »

Zanni wrote: post #267
ramses0 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False. We have just demonstrated that two different keyboards have two completely different responses to the same level of force. If Apple replaced keyboard keytops with sandpaper and people complained of bleeding, raw fingers, would you still say that it's the user's fault for "typing too hard"? Or maybe, just maybe... that they screwed up a miniaturization attempt.

It's possible for it to be a hardware design error and user error. Or just an impedance mismatch between a particular piece of hardware and a particular user. I agree that the new Macbook keyboards aren't for everyone. Some people, like my girlfriend take to them right away. Others will never adjust. And that's fine . You don't like it? Don't use it. Return it for something else. But I think there's a large middle gr…

I encourage you to spend time with a pianist. Your comparison is not supporting the point I think you're trying to make.

I encourage you to differentiate between someone who diddles the keys for 10 minutes once a week vs. someone who dedicates 90+ hrs per week and whose livelyhood depends on quality and precision of the tools they use.

If it's consumer trash then take it to windows-craptop land. I thought Apple made rugged, performant, premium machines, but it's looking more and more like they're a fashion company.

Otherwise if you're advocating for "consumer choice" then point me to the legal hackintosh laptop market where I can get a better integrated keyboard?

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