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Washington Post integrates Talk – Mozilla’s open-source commenting platform

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271–280 of 347 posts

Re: Washington Post integrates Talk – Mozilla’s open-source commenting platform

#271
post #87

Reddit has had embeddable comment threads for over two years. It was a feature I actually worked on nine years ago, but the standards weren't there at the time to make it work with voting. I know I'm super biased, but I still find Reddit comments the easiest to read and follow (HN is a pretty close second, especially after they added comment collapsing). Is it really just bad marketing it on Reddit's part that keeps…

The best comment threads are on Slashdot, the ability to filter comments less than +2 makes it much easier to skim read all the good comments. On Reddit, if the top comment is a joke, you need to wade through a million other jokes before you get to the next top level comment (which may be interesting) Categorising (a la slashdot) comments is interesting, you can filter out 'funny' and keep 'informative' etc. But I gu…

Reddit + RES and "collapse all child posts" is pretty awesome. All threads start off collapsed. You can individually expand them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GeoPolitics has a very nice CSS in which the collapse toggle runs down the side of a thread. You can collapse, and set the level you want to collapse, from within the thread. It's genius, seriously.

The bar appears on mouse-over, running vertically.

See for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/6z27gx/rgeopol...

Re: Washington Post integrates Talk – Mozilla’s open-source commenting platform

#272
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best comment threads are on Slashdot, the ability to filter comments less than +2 makes it much easier to skim read all the good comments. On Reddit, if the top comment is a joke, you need to wade through a million other jokes before you get to the next top level comment (which may be interesting) Categorising (a la slashdot) comments is interesting, you can filter out 'funny' and keep 'informative' etc. But I gu…

> On Reddit, if the top comment is a joke, you need to wade through a million other jokes before you get to the next top level comment (which may be interesting) You can just collapse it. I agree with you that the categorization on Slashdot was nice, as was the metamoderating. But when I find myself on Slashdot these days, I find it impossible to follow a conversation with so many collapsed comments.

There's often not much conversation to follow. I'll very occasionally pop over to Slashdot (I'd been there since before user accounts were a thing), and ... well, it's fallen greatly.

Re: Washington Post integrates Talk – Mozilla’s open-source commenting platform

#273

After reading this article over and over I am still clueless. What is this all about? Feature-wise it doesn't sound better than a comment system from HN, Reddit or StackExchange. Besides, Mozilla is really lacking communicational skills. This blog post feels like the documentation at MDN, tedious and unclear.

Well, it's an embeddable comment system that doesn't track its users, unlike major "players" like Disqus or Facebook.

If you're struggling to grasp the importance of plug-ins for commentators, there's a good explanation of their relevance in the article.

Re: Washington Post integrates Talk – Mozilla’s open-source commenting platform

#274
> You own your data.

I was super excited when I came across that first sentence in bold (italics here) on one of the points under "Here’s what makes Talk different".

Wow, I thought to myself, does this mark yet another step in the revolution of the re-decentralization of the internet? Is Talk a product sharing the same ideological foundations as awesome projects like Sandstorm (https://sandstorm.io/), Matrix (https://matrix.org/), remoteStorage (https://remotestorage.io/), Solid (https://solid.mit.edu/), and many others that I'm doing a grave injustice to by not mentioning here (please do remind/enlighten me in the comments if you're aware of others!), that strive to give back to users the ability to control their own data to whatever degree technically feasible: where it lives, who has access to which pieces of it, how they may access/manipulate it, under what circumstances, and for how long, etc, etc.

The concept of apps built on user-provided and user-controlled data-sources, envisioned by projects like these, has always been immensely appealing to me. If users truly controlled their data, and only granted apps access to the data they need to function, instead of depending on each individual app to host user data in their own locked-off silos, then switching to a different app would be a simple matter of granting another app access to the same pieces of data! Lock-in would completely stop being an issue!

Imagine that! We could have a healthy and highly competitive app ecosystem where users choose apps by their own merit instead of by the size of their moat built on nothing but network effects. Newcomers could unseat incumbents by simply providing a better product that users want to use! Like a true free-market meritocracy!

And then I read on:

> Unlike the most popular systems, every organization using Talk runs its own version of the software, and keeps its own data. Talk doesn’t contain any tracking, or digital surveillance. This is great for journalistic integrity, good for privacy, and important for the internet.

And I realized, No, they were not talking to me, a lowly user hoping against hope to one day live in a world where we can truly own and control access to data that rightfully belongs to us. Rather, they were talking to platform owners like Washington Post, loudly proclaiming that with Talk, that they get to own my comments, my profile, my data, and that somehow it is "good for privacy, and important for the internet".

Sadly, this is just yet another data point in the unrelenting trend in silo-ization of user data, and stopping that trend is becoming more and more of a distant dream because both newcomers and incumbents today realize the massive competitive advantage lock-in and network effects afford them. Incumbents will never give up their moat and allow the possibility of interop without a fight, and newcomers all end up racing to build up their own walled-off data silos because they have ambitions to become an incumbent enjoying a moat of their own one day. Even products that are built on top of open protocols and allow non-trivial interop tend to eventually go down the path of embrace, extend, extinguish, once they reach any significant scale.

Regardless, for this particular instance, my rational mind realizes that platform owners are the group that Mozilla must appease and market to, in order for Talk to stand any chance of success, and that Talk as a product is definitely the lesser of many evils in the same space, and that fundamental change usually manifests itself as a series of small, incremental improvements, much like in this case where an open-source, privacy-respecting product manages to defeat numerous much more deeply pocketed and deeply entrenched rivals to secure a foothold in a competitive market. But as a longtime Mozilla Fanboy, however irrational it may be, I can't help but feel a little bit betrayed when even they are forced to send messages like this in a painful compromise that confirms my lingering suspicion that we're still a long way off from winning the battle for a user-centric internet.

Re: Washington Post integrates Talk – Mozilla’s open-source commenting platform

#275

After reading this article over and over I am still clueless. What is this all about? Feature-wise it doesn't sound better than a comment system from HN, Reddit or StackExchange. Besides, Mozilla is really lacking communicational skills. This blog post feels like the documentation at MDN, tedious and unclear.

> This blog post feels like the documentation at MDN, tedious and unclear. This feels like an undeserved swipe to me. How many developers prepend their searches with "mdn" when they need info on browser APIs?

I do. I feel like Mozilla is the only organization that I can trust to provide neutral, unbiased documentation about all the standardized web APIs out there.

Plus with GitHub single sign-on it's actually very easy to contribute to or edit an article (assuming most web developers have a GitHub account). I was surprised when I found that out.

Re: Washington Post integrates Talk – Mozilla’s open-source commenting platform

#276
post #87

Reddit has had embeddable comment threads for over two years. It was a feature I actually worked on nine years ago, but the standards weren't there at the time to make it work with voting. I know I'm super biased, but I still find Reddit comments the easiest to read and follow (HN is a pretty close second, especially after they added comment collapsing). Is it really just bad marketing it on Reddit's part that keeps…

I'm not going to use a site where the CEO edits people's comments.

https://www.cnet.com/news/reddit-ceo-admits-to-editing-user-...

Re: Washington Post integrates Talk – Mozilla’s open-source commenting platform

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most things that the federal government wants to do these days (healthcare, education, food assistance, etc.) can be done just as effectively at the state level (and possibly at the county or city level). In general, if things are done at lower levels of government, people in a particular area get more of what they do want and less of what they don't (for example Californians could have super-high taxes and single-pa…

Fair enough. But why would people need different healthcare based on different states? Or education? Or food? That never made sense to me.

Let's say 51% of the country was against abortion, but you live in a state where 100% of the people approve of abortion.

Now, why would people need different healthcare based on different states?

Not everyone agrees with your definition of what constitutes "need" as it relates to healthcare, education or food. And while populations are rarely if ever completely homogenous, it would be absurd to say there aren't significant cultural values that are largely shared based on geography.

Re: Washington Post integrates Talk – Mozilla’s open-source commenting platform

#278
post #87

Reddit has had embeddable comment threads for over two years. It was a feature I actually worked on nine years ago, but the standards weren't there at the time to make it work with voting. I know I'm super biased, but I still find Reddit comments the easiest to read and follow (HN is a pretty close second, especially after they added comment collapsing). Is it really just bad marketing it on Reddit's part that keeps…

Doesn't that require a reddit account to comment? That sounds like a pretty large con to me...

Re: Washington Post integrates Talk – Mozilla’s open-source commenting platform

#279
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes HN comments great that other comments systems don't have? It's the guidelines. By writing guidelines that promote useful discourse you allow everyone involved to learn more about their own biases and shortcomings. Every person that writes their opinion grows when reading the varied responses (as long as they're open to other people's perspectives).

Smarter and more insightful commentators. That's pretty much it. Once the population gets too big and the level of discourse too low, the intelligent people will move to greener pastures with better signal:noise ratios. Slashdot's moderation system didn't save them, and HN's moderation system won't either. I've yet to see a comment system that promotes signal:noise ratio over groupthink.

Exactly, HN works because of it's audience. This leads to weird incentives though, promoting HN to widely might worsen it by diluting the 'good' audience. Not to forget the discussion about who is part of the 'good' audience, that discussion is bound to be toxic.

Re: Washington Post integrates Talk – Mozilla’s open-source commenting platform

#280
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a mix of Reddit google's network algorithm could work - don't just upvote/downvote the post, but lend the commenter's credibility. So upvotes from hordes of poo-flinging monkeys aren't weighted as heavily from upvotes from credible sources. Then the hack: this is a newspaper. They have no reason to be fair. Give community moderators super-credibility. So they can upvote people and not just give their co…

How about this: separate buttons for "this is a good/bad argument" and "i agree/disagree with this" then give more voice to people whose votes on these two axes are orthogonal. this rewards policing bad arguments on your side, or finding good arguments on the other side.

If it is known that visibility is tied to "good/bad argument" rather than "agree/disagree", I'd expect most people to start using the 'argument' buttons for signaling their 'agreement'.
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