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Atlassian launches Stride, its Slack competitor

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Re: Atlassian launches Stride, its Slack competitor

#271

Post by Flenser »

erikb wrote: post #48
morinted wrote: post #10

Now we have Slack, Discord, Gitter, Microsoft Teams, and Atlassian Stride. I'm not sure when chat rooms became a business tool. Personally, I find myself distracted more than anything from all the notifications these apps cause, I get less done. I have to be sure to quit every chat app and put my phone in "do not disturb" to disconnect and focus, and then I get coworkers mad that I'm not online. At least with email I…

A common discussion I have with other developers. For a developer I'd say I'm a little more people minded than average, and a lot more big picture success oriented. And in both regards your personal productivity doesn't really matter. The biggest problem in software development is actually not per-coder-performance but that the right things get solved, and that the solution are actually good and quickly finished. Thi…

> sometimes it would be good if some developers would just reduce their code output, without providing anything else, because it would help keep all other developers in the loop

Oh yes!

I once worked with someone that was so prolific that I had no chance to keep up-to-date with their changes and get my own work done.

Re: Atlassian launches Stride, its Slack competitor

#272

Post by Karunamon »

kuschku wrote: post #254
Karunamon wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the IRC meme would die in the enterprise world. It's an evolutionary dead end that ignores the last 20 years or so of improvements and expectations for a messaging system. * Service packages are poor replacements for fine-grained permission controls and registration. * Always-connected clients are poor replacements for message history and push notifications. * DCC is a a poor replacement for video chat, screen…

> * /whois and /away are poor replacements for user status tracking. That’s why IRC has away-notify, which does exactly what slack and co do for status tracking. > * DCC is a a poor replacement for video chat, screen sharing, or file sharing. That’s why people are working on an RFC for WebRTC negotiated via IRC. > * Always-connected clients are poor replacements for message history and push notifications. That’s why…

I notice a lot of "being worked on" in your reply, which really exemplifies the problem. Being worked on might have been okay a decade or two ago, but it's really too little, too late when there's stuff out right now that provides everything IRC does, but better. The mindshare is gone, the user goodwill is gone.

A reference implementation of a WIP RFC is rather different from a thing you can download and install and have working right now in a server that isn't likely to change their implementation in a way that makes those features unusable (since they're headline features being sold to enterprises).

There's also the fact that most IRC clients suck, with interfaces that look and control like xterm circa 1980. Fine for the people that read Hacker News, offputting for everyone else.

Do any of these RFCs or newer IRCd's support full message auditing for the legal folks?

SASL is nice, but unless you're into something like Okta or some other homegrown thing, most are going to use plain old LDAP/AD. And AFAIK, permissions on most IRCd's are still pretty spartan. There's no way to make a room visible to one class of users but not others, as there's either visible to all or invisible to all.

Re: Atlassian launches Stride, its Slack competitor

#273

Post by Kadin »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #118
erikb wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A common discussion I have with other developers. For a developer I'd say I'm a little more people minded than average, and a lot more big picture success oriented. And in both regards your personal productivity doesn't really matter. The biggest problem in software development is actually not per-coder-performance but that the right things get solved, and that the solution are actually good and quickly finished. Thi…

You are correct but so often we are measured on individual productivity. And you get what you measure. So team members will want to work distraction-free to max their KPIs. Your insights good, it needs to be needed by managers and staff that the team is working as a team.

I recently re-read the classic "Peopleware" (written 1974) and I think it's a bit unfortunate, given all the innovation elsewhere in the field, that there hasn't been much innovation or even experimentation about the nature of employment or how teams are constructed and actually execute work.

Sure, there's a new "method" every few years but these seem like tinkering around the edges.

I admit this is not a fully-formed idea but I've wondered about a concept where an entire team would be compensated as a team, but then the team would be responsible for hiring/firing. (Which seems only fair -- if you're going to be compensated as a team you should have control over it.) A group "audition" interview technique is discussed in Peopleware that I have sadly never seen implemented, but something like that could form a part.

But as long as people are compensated on an individual basis there will always be an incentive to treat communication and particularly assistance or training of other team members as a second-tier function, to be done only reluctantly if at all. But viewed from the throughput or potential of a team, someone who increases the performance of multiple other developers has a much greater shot, in my experience, of being the mythical "10X developer" than even a very strong individual contributor. And the reverse is certainly well-known to be true: someone who hurts the performance of people around them, even if they produce good code at a reasonable rate, may actually be worse than useless to the team as a whole. Producing an incentive structure that takes those issues into account that's based on measuring individual performance is extremely difficult, and I've begun to think impossible, given that the industry has been trying to do it for decades with little apparent progress.

Re: Atlassian launches Stride, its Slack competitor

#274

Post by Kadin »

cortesoft wrote: post #263
m_fayer wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was another Slack-complainer until I joined an organisation without any sort of business-chat system. That's when my amnesia cleared up and I remembered just what a slog email is without a Slack-like. I remembered that email is used as chat when there's no proper chat system, that it's an unsearchable unstructured endless soup of important stuff, cat videos, unnecessary reply-all mashing, mysterious banishment…

Wait, why is email unsearchable?

Mostly Microsoft Outlook.

(But more seriously, even with a good MUA and either client-side or server-side search, the way mail messages are constructed, with tons of reply quoting, makes searching them a pain.)

In lots of business cultures there's no expectation to search email, because it's so hard to get useful results that way, so if you send it in an email you can expect to have people just ask you to send it again. Even if you can use search, it still sucks.

Slack is not perfect but it's at least designed for search.

Re: Atlassian launches Stride, its Slack competitor

#275

Post by x0x0 »

BackendAndBBQ wrote: post #154
SomeHacker44 wrote: post #141

As the head of a company that uses HipChat... Thank you Atlassian. We have intended to migrate to the (free and better) Mattermost for a long time and just have been waiting for it to hit the top of our priority list. Knowing you are abandoning the terrible HipChat for an entirely new product, with no migration path and 50% more cost, makes this an easier choice. You have been abandoning us on JIRA and Confluence as…

> Knowing you are abandoning the terrible HipChat for an entirely new product, with no migration path AFAIK, they offer migration from Hipchat to Stride https://confluence.atlassian.com/stride-documentation/upgrad... > We'll move all of your teammates, rooms, files, custom emoticons, and message history over to Stride for you so your team won't miss a beat.

The question is why one would trust Atlassian to make decent software this time when hipchat is such a POS.

On a former team we were forced to use hipchat and their android client just nuked my battery. It was like night and day; remove the app and my battery lasts 24-30h; with it hipchat installed it would last 10 hours. This was a stock Nexus device btw.

Re: Atlassian launches Stride, its Slack competitor

#278

Post by nerdface »

bananateam wrote: post #197
davidjgraph wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm suspecting Hipchat will be for Server/Data Center (i.e. self-hosted) and Stride will be their cloud offering.

yes

Will there be feature parity between the two, or will HipChat be left behind?

Re: Atlassian launches Stride, its Slack competitor

#279

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

morinted wrote: post #10

Now we have Slack, Discord, Gitter, Microsoft Teams, and Atlassian Stride. I'm not sure when chat rooms became a business tool. Personally, I find myself distracted more than anything from all the notifications these apps cause, I get less done. I have to be sure to quit every chat app and put my phone in "do not disturb" to disconnect and focus, and then I get coworkers mad that I'm not online. At least with email I…

Of those I only use Slack, so I can't speak for the rest of them, but isn't the whole point that you can silence channels that you're not interested in at that moment? Otherwise you might as well use AOL Instant Messenger.

It is the absence of that feature that causes me to ignore e-mail.

Re: Atlassian launches Stride, its Slack competitor

#280

Post by SomeHacker44 »

orand wrote: post #151
SomeHacker44 wrote: post #141

As the head of a company that uses HipChat... Thank you Atlassian. We have intended to migrate to the (free and better) Mattermost for a long time and just have been waiting for it to hit the top of our priority list. Knowing you are abandoning the terrible HipChat for an entirely new product, with no migration path and 50% more cost, makes this an easier choice. You have been abandoning us on JIRA and Confluence as…

Which Jira and Confluence features aren't available for fully upgraded self-hosted instances?

Not to beat a dead horse about it, but Atlassian made improvements to the Kanban functionality, especially regarding the backlog (a backlog manager), and didn't make it available to our on-premise locally-installed stuff.

Additionally, they jacked up the prices on the Service Desk software users and changed who can do what at what prices.

All in all, I wouldn't choose Atlassian for any new installations/companies. I would definitely look elsewhere. And, I've been using their products since before FishEye was an Atlassian product (and they destroyed that product too).

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