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US quits Paris climate pact

bbc.com

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Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#271

Post by mywittyname »

mikeash wrote: post #222
NicoJuicy wrote: post #83

So Trump is basicly quitting the Paris climate pact for the mining industry, which is mostly automated? Leaving the solar space for China that going to be the leader in solar energy. I've actually never thought i would say this, but my "admiration" for the US has drasticly declined the last few months. I think this also affects "Silicon Valley". PS. Am i right that your President only had a one hit wonder with Trump…

You're missing about three decades of right-wing propaganda. President Trump is the logical conclusion of The Rush Limbaugh Show, Fox News, and other assorted media. These people systematically created a tribal political environment where facts don't matter, ridicule is the best argument, and Democrats are the enemy. They've been pounding this into the heads of any American who would listen since the late 1980s or so…

> Add in the electoral college, which gives a substantial advantage to candidates who can win rural voters, and here we are.

Don't forget our ridiculous Congressional system that greatly over-weights the opinions of rural voters. California has 80 times the number of people as Wyoming, yet they both get two seats in the Senate and 1/53rd the number of representatives in the House.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#272

Post by aaron-lebo »

walshemj wrote: post #266
aaron-lebo wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this Suez? How do you know it's not the British losing a battle in 1761 or something? I mean, there were probably prognosticators at that time saying, "Charlie, did you hear about that British defeat by the French by the old Ohio River. By God they're finished as an empire. Done!" We won't know the impact this has on anything for a long time. In a decade it probably isn't going to matter. Just seems like a hug…

No offence you don't seem to have much knowledge of post ww2 history.

Sure, but you didn't know about that catch, did you?

Come on HN. Guy can say "you don't know anything about history" and not even back it up, but as long as it agrees with your biases, upvote. Make a dumb joke? Downvote.

You're better than that. You've all got access to the same wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#273

Post by barrkel »

rayiner wrote: post #102
scarmig wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pulling out of it is indication that the USA's politics is primarily driven by virtue signaling among different segments of its governing elite, not by policy or objective reality. If you believe the USA should be involved at all on the international stage, this creation of new public knowledge is a big detriment to that end.

> If you believe the USA should be involved at all on the international stage, this creation of new public knowledge is a big detriment to that end. The belief that the U.S. needs to be involved in the international stage is based on the fallacious assumption that international cooperation can fix climate change. There is no scenario in which that happens. Without fundamental technological leaps, we'd have to decreas…

Even if climate change is a figment of people's imagination, it's a shared figment, and leadership affects how the US is perceived.

China is rising, and China is In. That means China will be leading where the US is off on its own.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#274

Post by vernie »

guelo wrote: post #195
rayiner wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the Paris pact was toothless. It was never going to work, just like Kyoto didn't work. So what's wrong with pulling out of it? Consternation over the Paris accord is, in my opinion, elitist liberal virtue signaling. (Here in the DC/MD/VA area, everyone will complain about this move at Starbucks sipping on lattes while driving one hour each way to work from their McMansion in the exurbs. God forbid we do anything…

Complaining about people at Starbucks sipping on lattes is conservative virtue signaling.

Look, I don't know what "virtue signaling" is, but parent seems like a real, red-blooded American, like me. Not some politically-correct, hypersensitive four-eyes. A guy I can just kick back with some cold brews and watch the game with.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#275

Post by pvnick »

GVIrish wrote: post #253
scarmig wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other countries don't care about post-facto rationalizations by partisans to demonize the other side in domestic policies. The USA cannot be trusted as an ally. That is the takeaway here. Saying that "but Obama's worse than Trump!!!" isn't changing that and is entirely besides the point. ETA: And, for what its worth, the Senate ratified NATO, and that hasn't stopped Trump and Republicans from doing their utmost to sa…

I don't think the parent poster was trying to say 'but Obama was worse', he was just pointing at the fact that an Executive Order can be undone by a successor. Kind of a moot point IMO, given the current state of the GOP. Had Obama gone to Congress they probably would've reflexively voted it down anyway. The current GOP is willing to damage America's trustworthiness on the world stage and this is more proof to the po…

If the Congress is unwilling to pass your agenda, then you usually just have to deal with not having your thing. That's the point of separation of powers. Going the extra-constituional route as a matter of course fed the GOP's reflexive opposition.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#276

Post by 1_2__3 »

rayiner wrote: post #76
scarmig wrote: post #51

This is one of those situations where you should be shaking your head, even if you're a climate change denying conservative or a fussil fuel industrial interest. The Paris pact was pretty toothless: it was a step forward, but heavily aspirational. Indeed, one of the stated complaints of conservatives was that it did nothing to enforce compliance. The Trump Administration could have just as well ignored it without for…

Yes, the Paris pact was toothless. It was never going to work, just like Kyoto didn't work. So what's wrong with pulling out of it? Consternation over the Paris accord is, in my opinion, elitist liberal virtue signaling. (Here in the DC/MD/VA area, everyone will complain about this move at Starbucks sipping on lattes while driving one hour each way to work from their McMansion in the exurbs. God forbid we do anything…

You sure packed a lot of liberal slurs in a really small and useless comment.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#277

Post by Danihan »

oblio wrote: post #194
Danihan wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And therein lies the problem.

A fellow HackerNews reader had a great quote, I don't remember the source. You're basically complaining that China has too many people and would presumably want that some of them wouldn't exist. His quote was: "If you think a certain group of people shouldn't exist, how do you select that group of people? And how do you know that you, yourself, shouldn't he a part of that group?". China's population is a fact. In the…

> would presumably want that some of them wouldn't exist.

I simply don't want to pay to enable them even more.

When the proper social constraints aren't in place, money = energy = more babies.

It's poor policy to continually reward countries that are chronically overcrowded and polluted, it just makes the issues worse long-term.

>The US is basically eating its own seed corn.

It's hilarious to me that you believe this when ~85% of the rivers in China are qualified as "very polluted" or "extremely polluted."

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#278

Post by xorcist »

scarmig wrote: post #51

This is one of those situations where you should be shaking your head, even if you're a climate change denying conservative or a fussil fuel industrial interest. The Paris pact was pretty toothless: it was a step forward, but heavily aspirational. Indeed, one of the stated complaints of conservatives was that it did nothing to enforce compliance. The Trump Administration could have just as well ignored it without for…

> The Paris pact was pretty toothless: it was a step forward, but heavily aspirational.

It is important to know that the reason the Paris agreement is aspirational only is that it was necessary in order for the US to sign.

And the reason for that is the US political system. Any commitments would have had to be ratified by the US senate, which was deemed unlikely. Actual commitments had to be deferred to later agreements.

There is a whole string of climate agreements going all the way back to 1992, all building on another. (Therefore just pulling out of one of them isn't necessarily straightforward.)

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#279

Post by nirav72 »

gonvaled wrote: post #263
nirav72 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US will put them too. and that will hurt Trump's base supporters more than any other group. The ones that still work in manufacturing that the U.S exports.

I really do not care about Trump or his supporters. This is hurting all of us, specially the coming generations.

Well I agree with you there. Just pointing out that this they basically cutting their nose to spite the face. They might see some short-term gains, but in the long-run..it will disproportionately impact them more.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#280

Post by splintercell »

elbasti wrote: post #175
seiferteric wrote: post #5

Does anyone think we might start seeing a brain drain out of the US given the current political climate?

.

> I'd rather spend my mental energy and my money fixing my own country TBH. I expect to be gone within the year.

I'm glad that you can go back and try to fix your country (dunno which one that is). In my case, I just can't.

When I came to America, I immediately fell in love with it. The best thing I like about it is how it doesn't give a fuck about so many things. There is a very refreshing 'new world' attitude in America which nearly no other country in the world carries (mostly because they're so old).

I would admit that in past 8-9 years (mostly since 2008 financial crises) the country has become more pessimist while majority of third world has felt more optimist, but I'd say that the old world attitude of the rest of the world will be a hurdle to them and the 'new world' attitude of America would be to it's rescue.

Either way, I wish you best of luck. If you made an attempt to get a GC in America, I presume that you've been infected by that American 'new world' attitude and once you go back, you'd see it clash in your home country with others.

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