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Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

mikecanex.wordpress.com

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Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#271
post #232
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness. On top of that, I feel alienated – what, you think you're so important that you can brush me off just like that, and I'm not even worthy being given a reason? Be careful with this one. It's very much possible to state a reason and still express that you won't change your mind on the matter. Although it is more effort, yo…

You're pretty entitled there -- not only are you demanding things from other people, but if they don't fulfill your requests, they have to give you a reason to your satisfaction or you think poorly of them! You should really think about learning some boundaries, and that you're not entitled to things from other people.

How I regret the way I phrased that! Coincidentally I'm a shy person, and probably too afraid of asking other people for help with even the smallest things.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#272
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am at work, but I don't give a fuck. This is the best thing I've read for a long time: "Because when we give too many fucks, when we choose to give a fuck about everything, then we feel as though we are perpetually entitled to feel comfortable and happy at all times, that’s when life fucks us." [1] 1. https://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck

Isn't that just repackaged Stoicism?

[deleted]

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#273
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One method I found works disturbingly well is to have a busy life or cultivate the appearance of a busy life. There is nothing original about this. Practically everyone is doing all they can to pretend to be busy, to the point that many people actually believe that they are, and all to avoid meaningful interactions with the people around them. Meaningful interactions are risky and costly and modern people have lost…

>Think about it, how many people, other than your family, really give a shit if you live or die? That is actually one of the crucial realizations that helped me change my behavior towards others. It may seem hard to believe, but once I understood that interactions were more transactional than I had previously thought (in the sense that you always have to create some form of value for others since people don't care ab…

"The only thing I'm suggesting is that for people to consider you a certain way you have to act a certain way to meet their conscious and unconscious expectations, even if the charade is irrational as a whole. Think of it as a way to get a social baseline that will in turn help you have a more meaningful existence."

It is oftentimes limiting too much - their expectations costs you. I get what you are saying and that it works that way, but it oftentimes forces you to pretend you don't like things you like or to avoid things you would like to try. I mean, yeah, they would respond to me better and I would have more meaningful social interactions, but the cost is too much.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#274
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One method I found works disturbingly well is to have a busy life or cultivate the appearance of a busy life. It's counter-intuitive for some and obvious for others, but people will value you more if you are less available whereas they will treat your time with increasing contempt if you can be reached and interrupted easily. With this reputation in place, people are much less likely to try to trick you into doing wh…

> One method I found works disturbingly well is to have a busy life or cultivate the appearance of a busy life. There is nothing original about this. Practically everyone is doing all they can to pretend to be busy, to the point that many people actually believe that they are, and all to avoid meaningful interactions with the people around them. Meaningful interactions are risky and costly and modern people have lost…

> Practically everyone is doing all they can to pretend to be busy, to the point that many people actually believe that they are, and all to avoid meaningful interactions with the people around them.

This is a big generalisation. Perhaps true in some specific contexts but certainly not in general. "Practically everyone" is not pretending to be busy to escape meaningful interactions. But many people are indeed pretending to be busy for the reason Bakary stated.

> Think about it, how many people, other than your family, really give a shit if you live or die?

Several tens at least. If you maintain good friendships and have a healthy work environment there is no reason why this wouldn't be the case.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#275
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness. On top of that, I feel alienated – what, you think you're so important that you can brush me off just like that, and I'm not even worthy being given a reason? Be careful with this one. It's very much possible to state a reason and still express that you won't change your mind on the matter. Although it is more effort, yo…

Here is my strategy: Say "No" without a reason, but give at some reasonable alternatives. I will not lie. "No, I can't do that for you at 5pm on a Friday. I can have it for you by noon on Monday, you can ask X to do the work, or you can invent a time machine and go back 24-hours and give the work to me yesterday."

This still puts the 'requestee' in a bind. Why should s/he have to think-of/figure-out an alternative? The requestor should be able to take a "no" for an answer and not feel entitled. Of course gentleness and politeness (usually) go a long way in making it easier.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is my strategy: Say "No" without a reason, but give at some reasonable alternatives. I will not lie. "No, I can't do that for you at 5pm on a Friday. I can have it for you by noon on Monday, you can ask X to do the work, or you can invent a time machine and go back 24-hours and give the work to me yesterday."

This still puts the 'requestee' in a bind. Why should s/he have to think-of/figure-out an alternative? The requestor should be able to take a "no" for an answer and not feel entitled. Of course gentleness and politeness (usually) go a long way in making it easier.

Sometimes the person making the request is entitled - they're in a management role and they're giving you a task. In that situation it's a good idea to show that you would do it if you could, but at the moment you can't. That allows the manager to do their job (assigning priority) and makes it clear the decision to reassign work was theirs, not yours.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#277

Do favors for money. Money is an IOU ticket for bartering.

You have a point there. Using money removes the arduous pontification of whether the favor was worth doing, aka "helper's guilt". Especially when both parties enjoy some sort of prior established trust (long friends or acquaintances), it's even easier to use money even if it won't compensate for a comparable market rate service. E.g. "Would you mind helping me with X, Y or Z and I'll buy you lunch(es)?"

This entirely depends on the culture one is used to.

I've seen two cultures:

- In one it works the way you describe it and it's considered odd if the favour were not 'compensated' in some way

- In another, the question of 'compensation' of a favour is an insult and seen as a statement of no investment in the relationsip

When people from one culture go to the other, it's bound to cause discomfort. I've experienced this and also seen it happen to others.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wanted to say thank you for this. I've already watched several of his videos this evening and started a monthly Patreon donation. So good!

Did you follow any kind of playlist? Could you provide a link?

There should be a sibling post in this thread with a playlist link.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#279
yeh, as a female this has been a long learning experience for me. Raised in the deep south, our job is to ease political and social tensions and be as accomodating as possible, literally waiting around to see how we can pitch in and help to advertise our hospitality.

Obviously the hypocrisy came to light a long time ago, but I still see this in myself and often amongst women in the workplace.

We are asked to do more public speaking on behalf of our company. The intentions are good, and I want more women in technology so I'm happy to be a role model though I'm far from perfect, but I won't let it take me away from my job and I've turned down being a public speaker.

I've turned down running a SWE "Society of Women Engineers" Chapter at work.

I turn down running social events on behalf of the company.

My favorite two I've learned to say no to are

"Well I never learned how to write well and you take really good notes, so can you document this meeting and send a summary email out to everyone with the conversation, highlights, and action items"

I'm not a secretary, I'm an engineer, and if you have a PhD from MIT and never learned how to write, and in fact its so difficult you can't take meeting notes or you need meeting notes because you can't remember the takeaway items, then thats your problem/opportunity for growth, not a place where I turn into a secretary.

if I'm going to be writing priorities, deciding what the priorities are based on the conversation, documenting them and communicating them and following up for troubleshooting follow through, then make me your Manager.

The other one is "yeh well this is really complicated. It's kind of a mess. Noones looked at this process in a long time, lots of old documentation. Would be really great if someone could come in a organize all this for us..."

That's the part where I'm supposed to enthusiastically volunteer to reorganize the half assed work of people who never understood APIs, who additionally still work at this company and have not fixed it, who are ok with half assed work, and people who will make condescending comments about the lack of ability to pick up quickly on things as I'm rewriting the mess of documentation left behind.

I used to feel obligated to all of those things. I don't. It's really too easy for people to expect women to come in at tech companies and

1. Be a part time poster child for women in tech including but not limited to taking time away from the team to go to public speaking events and organize work events.

2. Spend your time documenting things that nooone has bothered documenting before

3. Be expected to "show enthusiasm" and "contribute" by basically cleaning out the closet of men who havn't opened the drawer to realize how disorganized things are until they have a new person trying to learn under them.

I don't do any of these things anymore, and I make it clear I am not interested in those things when I am asked. I spend time learning technical work, and continually filter my tasks of extraneous things that are not focused on addressing the core issues of my work.

Your job is to do your job and be good at it, and you will naturally be accomodating by the benefits that brings.

On a personal level, I've learned the same thing. huge guilt trips from men to hang out and call me a bitch for basically having standards, being an introvert, and not making dating my hobby outside of work. It's expected of me actually still even in tech.

Huge guilt trips from girls who expect me to be an extrovert, or take it personally that I dont want to be constantly social or go shopping or talk about boys with them, again, even in tech.

Women have a lot of pressure to be socially accomodating, and people will have subconscious expectations of you to do be that way inside and outside of work, and not realize how entitled they actually feel in regards to having a say in your own personal life decisions.

I'm 26 now, but I really wish another women would have given me this advice at 20.

Learn to say no. Focus on you and your job. You accomodate so many people when you take care of yourself and are good at your job and genuinely contribute.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#280
post #47

As someone who trends towards heavily accommodating, I often seem to find my actions that I judge as selfish or arrogant are the ones that I get respect for. Definitely a phenomena I don't understand, but its real so it should be very valuable to learn where to draw the line.

Put it in the context of dominance and submission among apes and it becomes clear. The one who does nice things for you is displaying a submissive posture and trying to win your favor. They are probably your social inferior: beneath you in the hierarchy, or at most, a peer. The one who doesn't care about you and does what he wants, shows that he's above you in the hierarchy. And some people just can't resist their in…

This reminds me of 'Human Zoo' by the zoologist Desmond Morris, which is a fascinating read.
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