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Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

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Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#271

Post by lovich »

komali2 wrote: post #172
matt4077 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The taking of 14,000 documents is actually assumed to be true currently for the purposes of this case. That's because Uber is in no position to deny it, only Lewandowsky could. And he can't deny it, because then he could no longer invoke his right to remain silent. Of course, the documentation from Waymo/Google is also pretty strong apparently. Simply saying "I didn't do that" would be insufficient.

> Uber is in no position to deny it, only Lewandowsky could. And he can't deny it, because then he could no longer invoke his right to remain silent. So he should give up his 5th amendment right to fend off an accusation? I don't think so, that doesn't sound like justice to me. >documentation from Waymo/Google is also pretty strong apparently. pretty apparently Come on man, you know what angle I'll go for here. Why a…

It's a civil case, not criminal. You only need a perponderance of evidence and if you invoke the 5th it's perfectly legal to make an adverse inference against you.

How would lawsuits work if that wasn't possible? Civil lawyers aren't able to use as many powers in evidence gathering as prosecutors. If uber's current tactic was allowed then every company would hire a designated employee who would have a paper trail of all the company's misdoings lead to him. That employee then pleads the fifth, the company does a shrug, and that's the end of the lawsuit

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#272

Post by [deleted] »

matt4077 wrote: post #260
dangoldin wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish his behavior led to some side effects on the justice system.

The courts are actually pretty first-class. Take a look at the transcript posted elsewhere in this thread for a reference to the transparency of the system, and how this judge is defending it. Supreme Court cases also make for pretty fun reading sometimes, and there's no denying that judges tend to be extremely smart and conscientious.

[deleted]

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#273

Post by ianamartin »

akiselev wrote: post #87
Animats wrote: post #62

Judge Alsup: "If your guy is involved in criminal activity and has to have criminal lawyers of the caliber of these two gentlemen, who are the best, well, okay they got the best. But it’s a problem I can’t solve for you. And if you think I’m going to cut you some slack because you’re looking at—your guy is looking at jail time, no. They [Waymo] are going to get the benefit of their record. And if you don’t deny it—if…

For those who don't recognize the name, this is the same judge that learned some Java for the Oracle v. Google case (and has an undergrad degree in mathematics). Every time I read his name I know it's going to be a fun ride and the lawyers will not be able to get away with anywhere near as much shenanigans as they usually do. Although his ruling regarding API copyright in the Google case was overturned, he has a real…

Can we not get ahead of things here? Maybe put him in Scalia's seat before we worry about Ginsberg? :)

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#274

Post by mdda »

ikeboy wrote: post #269
matt4077 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Judges have extreme latitude in what they consider and how they run a trial. Consider the recent case in Hawaii ruling on the travel ban. Quote: "The Court will not crawl into a corner, pull the shutters closed, and pretend it has not seen what it has." (The reference is to the President's statements before and after the election) Many seem to be surprised reading this transcript. Yet the tone this judge is usin…

There's a difference between considering details that have been entered into the record by the parties, and saying "oh I saw X in the newspaper". I assume in that case the plaintiff took the President's statements and put it in their filings.

But the judge wasn't using the newspaper report as part of his consideration. He was just offering it up as something that the defendant should be willing put into the court record (instead of taking the Fifth). The fact that it appeared in a paper is, OTOH, clear-as-day evidence that stuff is not being shown to the court, which he's saying has some value as a datapoint on its own (irrespective of the content).

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#275

Post by ridgeguy »

biot wrote: post #259
ridgeguy wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's right. For example, in the California Penal Code, "A person is guilty of arson when he or she willfully and maliciously sets fire to or burns or causes to be burned or who aids, counsels, or procures the burning of, any structure, forest land, or property." [1] The incendiary's ownership or not of the property doesn't matter. [1] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio... .

From your link: For purposes of this paragraph, arson of property does not include one burning or causing to be burned his or her own personal property unless there is an intent to defraud or there is injury to another person or another person’s structure, forest land, or property.

Thank you - I agree it turns on mens rea. Burning one's own property can be criminal arson, depending on intent or result.

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#276

Post by filereaper »

Animats wrote: post #62

Judge Alsup: "If your guy is involved in criminal activity and has to have criminal lawyers of the caliber of these two gentlemen, who are the best, well, okay they got the best. But it’s a problem I can’t solve for you. And if you think I’m going to cut you some slack because you’re looking at—your guy is looking at jail time, no. They [Waymo] are going to get the benefit of their record. And if you don’t deny it—if…

I hate to piggyback on the top comment, but could somebody explain the 5th Amendment and its implications here.

I'm not a lawyer, nor am I from the USA. I've heard of the fifth, but never fully understood it in scenarios like this.

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#278

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

life_on_mars2 wrote: post #251
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vendetta against Mr. Levandowski? Google paid him $120 million , and he then took that same technology for another multi hundred million dollar payday from Uber. Mr. Levandowski's avarice is basically something I can't really comprehend.

I can't find the article that I read that talked about Mr Levandowski's experience prior to Google and while at Google, but the impression I got wasn't that he left out of avarice, but because Google was too bureaucratic for his taste. His entire career looks like someone eager to build the future today, and it sounds like Google failed to be an enabler of what he wants to build. The more I read about Uber, the more…

> The more I read about Uber, the more I get the impression that it's the best place to work today if you actually want to build the future fast.

Is there some sort of bizarro universe version of Hacker News that has been publishing "Uber is an awesome place to work!" articles?

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#279

Post by visarga »

dlgeek wrote: post #256
sova wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude he learned Java for a court case? My respect for this man grows immense. What a G. I wish more people were like this "I need some more domain-knowledge to understand what's at stake? no problem, let me do some learning." Excellent attitude.

Continue to be impressed: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3524990/Gov-Uscou... https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3524989/d99f25c8-...

> The judge is interested in learning the basic technology and learning publicly known art. This would be a good opportunity for a young lawyer to present in court.

How thoughtful to promote young lawyers like that! Nice judge.

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#280

Post by bartvk »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #100
akiselev wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who don't recognize the name, this is the same judge that learned some Java for the Oracle v. Google case (and has an undergrad degree in mathematics). Every time I read his name I know it's going to be a fun ride and the lawyers will not be able to get away with anywhere near as much shenanigans as they usually do. Although his ruling regarding API copyright in the Google case was overturned, he has a real…

I don't know where this guy stands on the political spectrum, but I know that I respect the crap out of him. He's got my support!

> don't know where this guy stands on the political spectrum

(N/W-European here) Is that really a thing that US citizens pay attention to?

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