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Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

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271–280 of 408 posts

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#271

Speaking as a proponent of remote work, I think the reason is that remote workers are less productive in a _non-remote enabled culture._ And by default most companies are not remote enabled. They don't even understand what that means. This is totally reasonable, as we still have very few examples of large, successful teams that are fully remote. Many of the ones we do have aren't actually companies, Linux kernel deve…

Definitely. Companies can either "allow remote work" or be "remote first". I've worked at both types.

The ones who are "allow remote work" are entirely office-focused and view remote workers with suspicion. A remote worker is very unlikely to get promoted, be able to take on interesting projects or large responsibilities. And they'll be out of the loop as far as what is going on in the company. (Even at a large company with probably 15% of the workers remote, it was frequent that people would just forget to open up a conference line for company-wide announcement meetings.)

On the other hand, "remote first" companies structure themselves around tools to enable remote working. So meetings happen online (via phone or web conference), project discussion or just water cooler chat happens in a messaging system like Slack or IRC, and projects are documented in a system accessible to everyone. In these environments remote workers are first class citizens and are as much a part of the company as any other.

I was at a "remote first" company that grew out of the open source development world for close to 5 years. I went to a company with the "allow remote work" model and lasted barely a year before leaving for another "remote first" company. It was a painful year, but at least now I know what to look for.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#272
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing I think you're just sheltered; in every country in Europe that I lived in or had friends live in (Poland, UK, Portugal), students and young professionals flatshare. Or live with their parents, but it comes out to the same thing. If you're not already independently rich, you can't afford a single bedroom flat on your own. The simple fact is that a tw…

Yes, but when Americans (e.g. college students) talk about "roommates" they mean they share a bedroom ! Literal room mates

[deleted]

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#273

If the type of development work you're doing can be easily done remotely, then there is a good chance it can be done much cheaper by a fantastic developer in Ukraine, or India, or China, or some country where wages are a lot cheaper than US or England or Canada. If, however, the type of work you're doing benefits from face-to-face interactions (i.e. quick iterations with lots of feedback from users, marketing and pro…

Time zones.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#274
post #32

I make good money. Why would you expect me to live in the middle of nowhere when I can live in the greatest cities of the world?

>Why would you expect me to live in the middle of nowhere when I can live in the greatest cities of the world?

I mean, I don't expect you to do it, but personally, I like to save aggressively so that I can reach financial independence sooner.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#275
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing I think you're just sheltered; in every country in Europe that I lived in or had friends live in (Poland, UK, Portugal), students and young professionals flatshare. Or live with their parents, but it comes out to the same thing. If you're not already independently rich, you can't afford a single bedroom flat on your own. The simple fact is that a tw…

Yes, but when Americans (e.g. college students) talk about "roommates" they mean they share a bedroom ! Literal room mates

As an Australian in the US, it seems that term is ambiguous.

When a college student talks about their roommate, yeah that's the freaky situation of being an adult and not having your own bedroom.

But on other contexts it just means what I would call a "housemate". You're not actually in the same room.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, Austin isn't cheap anymore but it's by no means expensive when compared to the coasts. It used to be something like a factor of two more expensive in SF or NYC, and I don't think it's quite that large a gap. The Austin city center is also so much smaller than many major cities that it can be misleading. Just 1.5 miles from downtown the price of housing starts to drop substantially.

SoCal/Bay Area expats are driving up costs in Austin.

Agree. Similar thing in all Texas metros. Although expats in Austin are certainly of the CA tech majority. I feel like all of TX is turning into CA.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#277

LOL it is the other way around, cities become most expensive because developers flock there and spend cash. This happens now in Limassol, Cyprus: crowds of developers, most having their own startups, started to flock there since 3 years ago from Russia, Belarus and Ukraine - it was always a country to keep offshore companies/accounts, so every rich developer in ex-USSR already been there and knew the place, but since…

I agree with your comment, as there is a factor that increases the cost in the cities where developers live in. Bringing up Limassol though, is not a valid argument. Limassol on its own has had a lot of rich people from Russia moving there permanently and in the past few years a lot of development went on there. The Marina or the pier etc makes it feel like you are in Miami of some sorts, so that definitely bumps the…

These people have been there since decades ago, early 1990s, and not much new ones arrived recently apart from developers. Large scale corruptioners you mentioned definitely don't increase prices on cheap rental apartments.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#278

I used to live in SF. It was exciting, but also shitty. I felt connected and alive, which was great, but also drained of resources, which really sucked. Oh, and there were 6 of us, in a 3 bedroom apartment. I had the living room. Yea. I lasted 3 years, until I met my wife, and by then I was ready to move. We did. Now, life in the suburbs, is slow. I feel somewhat disconnected and like I don't really belong to this co…

This comment resonates with me.

After leaving university, and moving on to a full time position in a suburb I feel completely disconnected. I didn't attend a ~huge~ school, but the sense of community was there. The lack of this feeling has been hard to explain, but this comment explains it very well.

I'm not sure if I will(or can) ever do something about this feeling either.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#279
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you a reason, although it's a reason that's personal only to me, probably. I love road cycling as a sport. IMHO cycling for pleasure sucks in cities, even ones with great cycling infrastructure. The cycle paths are full of slow commuters calmly pootling their way to work|shops|date|whatever. The roads in cities are full of distracted|incompetent|psychopathic drivers in motor vehicles all wanting to "punish"…

In my experience, I've found the best cycling to be in the LA and SD area....bike aware culture and weather permits you to ride over 300+ days a year. I imagine California in general has great year round cycling

I work remote from central Los Angeles. The biking is incredible here. I mainly do hills and the Santa Monica/San Gabriel mountains provide some excellent climbing. There is very little traffic in the hilly parts of the city.

Re: Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the most expensive cities?

#280
post #32

I make good money. Why would you expect me to live in the middle of nowhere when I can live in the greatest cities of the world?

>Why would you expect me to live in the middle of nowhere when I can live in the greatest cities of the world? I mean, I don't expect you to do it, but personally, I like to save aggressively so that I can reach financial independence sooner.

Then the best option is to live frugally on a high salary in an expensive COL location. Really only housing scales linearly. If you can save on that, your base salary can be doubl, which affects your 401k match %, your bonus %, any raises, etc. so even if your entire salary adjustment goes to rent in a couple years you would be saving way more.
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