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Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

nytimes.com

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Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#271

Post by alistairSH »

frobozz wrote: post #219
xiphias wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure..the thing I don't understand is why she didn't go to a lawyer? That would have been the next logical step for me. At least 1 person should get to prison if there is enough evidence collected by multiple women.

A union representative is the next logical step. They will be able to represent you anonymously at first, and bring a collective action against the perpetrator if there have been multiple incidents against multiple victims. If you wish to take it to court yourself, then they may also be able to provide you with or help you find an appropriate lawyer for the case.

A union representative is the next logical step.

Are you based outside the US? Unions aren't particularly prevalent in the US, at least not in professional fields.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#272

Post by vertex-four »

sangnoir wrote: post #239
afarrell wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I can confirm that most mentions of her on Reddit that I've seen are very pejorative toward her.

Not sure if your anecdote applies here: as Reddit CEO, she made a number of decisions that were unpopular with mods and users alike - entirely not related to her court action.

At which point people decided to use her court action as part of their "proof" that she's a "SJW" and therefore to be hated.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#273

Post by jordigh »

hueving wrote: post #233

>Ms. Fowler’s account is another sign of Silicon Valley’s struggle with women’s issues and diversity in a male-dominated engineering environment. In 2015, the venture capital world was put under the microscope when Ellen Pao, a former partner at Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, claimed in a lawsuit that she was discriminated against at the blue-chip venture firm because of her gender — a case she lost. This paragrap…

> where a jury decided she was wrong.

A jury didn't decide she was wrong. That's not what juries do. A jury decided that they couldn't all unanimously agree beyond a shadow of a doubt that she was right. Just because a jury doesn't convict doesn't mean the problem didn't happen.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/03/ellen-pao-and-t...

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#274

Post by HelloMcFly »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #113
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The "HR is not your friend" trope gets thrown out a lot, but in cases where your goals align with the company's (i.e. you don't want to get harassed, and the company doesn't want to get sued), HR is the place you should be able to go.

> Should be able to go Yes, in theory. But most HRs "protect the org" in the most short sighted way possible

I'm an HR professional. I've done extensive consulting to organization of people processes and HR functioning. I've found that companies typically get what they pay for in their HR department. Many organization echo the sentiment that many contributors on HN have (i.e., that HR is a sometimes necessary evil; the people are marginally skilled; etc.). Organizations that have that mentality of HR hire HR teams that are fine at transactional work, "saying yes", and managing to targets. And then when situations arise - either acute situations like sexual harassment or problems that manifest over longer timeframes - they pay the price.

Like any department, HR should be staffed with intelligent, values-driven leaders with the spine to take strong perspectives and the ability to form collaborative vs. transactional relationships with the business. Constantly saying "yes" and failing to push back or take principled stands is not collaborative. Yet that is what many young companies want out of their HR department. I've found this more true in young(er) tech companies, though my sample size is limited.

When you build your HR function as a transactional service center, you get short-sighted decision-making.

That's all just my professional opinion.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#275

Post by JshWright »

chimeracoder wrote: post #260
lostboys67 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why representing members at grievance hearings is a union bread and butter issue

> Why representing members at grievance hearings is a union bread and butter issue In theory. And disciplining or terminating employees who expose the company to well-documented, open-and-shut lawsuits is an HR bread and butter issue. Yet here we are. If you really want someone who will be legally bound to represent you without conflict of interest, and with legal protection against retaliation, you want a lawyer, no…

One of the major roles of unions nowadays is providing access to legal counsel (specifically lawyers with experience in workplace issues).

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#276

Post by benchaney »

tomlock wrote: post #254
benchaney wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Understood. You should get your lady friends in tech to read the comments you posted on a throwaway. Do you think they'll feel safer around you?" Are you seriously going to argue this isn't a criticism?

No? Why would I argue that? It is a criticism. Just not of the content.

The only thing about a post that is rational to criticize is the content. What else could you criticize? The name of the person who posted it? The time when it was posted?

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#277

Post by hueving »

tomlock wrote: post #237
hueving wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this kind of thing is uncalled for when all the commenter just pointed out that we should wait for some kind of evaluation of evidence before pitchforking. The entire justice system in the US is founded on "innocent until proven guilty". In pitchfork-heavy threads like this, pointing that out should not result in an implication that you make women feel unsafe. You are implying that women should feel unsafe ar…

Do you think women feel more or less safe around people who, given an egregious example of harassment, instead leap to the defense of the six silicon valley companies they've worked for or to criticise the NYT?

I don't know who the strawman you are attacking is, but it's definitely not me.

>given an egregious example of harassment

I upvoted her story. It's a terrible case and it needs to be investigated ASAP.

>instead leap to the defense of the six silicon valley companies they've worked for or to criticise the NYT

The comment you are referring to is in response to the NYT turning a serious, specific issue into some larger political propaganda piece about women in all of silicon valley. Additionally, the NYT hurt her case by comparing it to one where a jury ultimately decided that the accuser was wrong.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#278

Post by hueving »

DanBC wrote: post #234
hueving wrote: post #233

>Ms. Fowler’s account is another sign of Silicon Valley’s struggle with women’s issues and diversity in a male-dominated engineering environment. In 2015, the venture capital world was put under the microscope when Ellen Pao, a former partner at Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, claimed in a lawsuit that she was discriminated against at the blue-chip venture firm because of her gender — a case she lost. This paragrap…

> (this behavior doesn't match the 6 companies I've worked at) Why do you think women would tell you about their experiences? I've read your comments on HN, and you'd be the last person I'd tell if it had happened to me.

>Why do you think women would tell you about their experiences?

Putting aside the unjustified personal attack for a moment, even if they didn't tell me, they wouldn't need to for me to know these companies haven't had this problem. It was clear from the relatively high percentages of female engineers (20-30% for SV-centric companies, one as high as 40% that had branches in European countries with better female graduate ratios). More importantly, there was a very low rate of turnover and the turnover that was present matched that of the male employees.

>I've read your comments on HN, and you'd be the last person I'd tell if it had happened to me.

So back to the personal attack. What specifically have I said that makes you think I wouldn't be a good person to talk to about a situation like this?

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#279

Post by Sharlin »

HelloNurse wrote: post #262
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The "HR is not your friend" trope gets thrown out a lot, but in cases where your goals align with the company's (i.e. you don't want to get harassed, and the company doesn't want to get sued), HR is the place you should be able to go.

Reading between the lines of Mrs. Fowler's account, the company's goal was being nice to a more important employee than her: a common situation in sexual harassment cases and other workplace conflicts.

And they miscalculated the extend to which said person was more of a liability than an asset, after all.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#280

Post by veidr »

bambax wrote: post #187
beachy wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a sweeping statement that I utterly disagree with. We do HR software, I've interacted with many HR people at many companies and I've never even heard of anything as outrageous as the behavior described in this case. In no way is it the way"most HRs" behave.

My experience is different. Every HR person I have ever interacted with was either entirely clueless or immensely evil.

OK; how many is that?
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