Live data from Hacker News

Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

blog.mozilla.org

271–280 of 336 posts

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#271

Ouch, the comments over there are extremely negative. As mozilla is our last bastion of hope between advertising giants it pains me to see mozilla having an increasingly hard time to sustain a positive brand image. It is crazy if you think about it, because Mozilla is the last giant that respects its users. It has a very good proposition with regards to privacy and user-interest alignment. There are still tons of les…

> Ouch, the comments over there are extremely negative.

Humans are loss-sensitive.

When Coca-Cola did blind taste tests for New Coke, it was overwhelmingly preferred. When they told people which was which, the preference for New Coke increased. Instead, when they removed Coca-Cola Classic from the shelves, people clamored for it back. People want the thing they cannot have. Scarcity creates desire.

To some, this is a simple engineering trade-off. You can't have sandboxing, tab isolation, and responsiveness improvements with XUL add-ons in any kind of feasible or sustainable way. You can estimate how many people use add-ons that can't (or won't) be ported to Web Extensions, how many people would benefit from the proposed improvements, what the relative changes in user adoption are likely to be for each, and make a call that gives the best result for the whole Firefox population.

But that won't stop the people who are feeling the loss from being vocal about it, nor others who don't even use those add-ons attaching value to the thing they can no longer have, and resent that it's being taken away.

To reverse course now would fail the other way: if you tell people you're going to hold off on full e10s deployment and the security and responsiveness improvements that will come with it to allow XUL add-ons to remain a while longer, they'll be upset that you've taken away the improvements you promised.

Both times the conversation will only be about one side of the equation. No amount of marketing will fix that. Just ask Coca-Cola.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't rule that out either. It might be that it is in Googles best interest to kill firefox. Here is an alternative view I have in mind. The strategy to mimick chrome makes sense, because the masses think this is how the browser -- or as they call it the "internet" -- should look like. Its imho feasible to launch a television and internet campaign promoting firefox after the transition by stressing the privacy qual…

> The strategy to mimick chrome makes sense, because the masses think this is how the browser -- or as they call it the "internet" -- should look like. But that's what FF has been doing for the past ~5 years, and how has their share been doing? Not so well. Chrome has much more marketing behind it. And it comes from a name that people know and trust. Most people don't know who Mozilla is. And most people don't care a…

> Chrome has much more marketing behind it.

Allow me to be more specific.

Chrome is an adware that is distributed by Google. It is bundled with most of Google products and a huge amount of software setup, because Google pays publishers some pennies for every new installation.

I have seen a lot of people who have had Chrome installed without knowing it, some of which transitioned without being aware of it simply because Chrome replaced the default browser and imported all settings. For the non tech savvy folks, it basically came down to "the Internet icon changed" .

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#273
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm extremely worried about Rikai-chan/sama. Rikaichan allows translation of Japanese words simply by hovering your mouse over. It works much better than entering words into an online dictionary, since nearly every free JE-EJ dictionary uses the same source, and if a conjugation isn't translatable it will cut the word off giving the meaning and then letting you easily highlight the conjugation to figure out the meani…

May I recommend http://ichi.moe ? There's no browser plugin, but it has way better word segmenting and conjugation algorithms than jisho.

That might be nice for the occasional translation, but it pales in comparison to the usability and experience Rikai-chan offers or I guess soon offered.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#274

Good, SJWs imploding as usual. Killing XUL is killing the only thing Firefox had to offer. Forks and Chrome will get more and more traffic.

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13675097 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The experience of Firefox getting slow over time is hardly unique to me. In any case, if it weren't a relatively common problem, it seems unlikely Mozilla would rearchitect the browser to alleviate it, especially given that some users are very distressed by the side effects of the change.

I'm betting it's your addon's/extensions/plugins causing the problem. A bad extension can bring Firefox down to it's knee's just like anything else programmed by Auntie Thelma. Download Firefox 51.0.1 then in the URL box type "about:support" then look for the line that says "Multiprocess Windows - 1/1 (Enabled by User)" that indicates whether electrolysis is enabled. If it says "0/1 disabled" you will have to manuall…

I'm already well familiar with these tools and this advice, but I nonetheless appreciate you taking the time; perhaps someone else will benefit from their presence here.

Extensions aren't the problem, and Firefox 51 with e10s enabled is amazingly snappy by comparison with the 45 ESR that I usually run.

On the other hand, 51 on Windows also refuses to load or render content from files located in directories mounted via the admin shares (e.g. \\127.0.0.1\C$). Since I use this functionality very heavily (home directory mounted at H:, etc.), I can't really switch over until I've had the leisure to find and resolve the cause of the issue. I have to imagine it's some new security setting that I can modify in about:config, but no one else seems to have run into the same problem, and identifying the changes in config options between Firefox versions is not something I've yet found a way to make trivial.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#277

Ouch, the comments over there are extremely negative. As mozilla is our last bastion of hope between advertising giants it pains me to see mozilla having an increasingly hard time to sustain a positive brand image. It is crazy if you think about it, because Mozilla is the last giant that respects its users. It has a very good proposition with regards to privacy and user-interest alignment. There are still tons of les…

Don't forget about Brave: https://brave.com/

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Partially because when Mozilla initially said "XUL is going away, what do you guys need?" Everyone just laughed at them and said "No, it's not, you'll never replace it because it is too important in extensions", and then all went away. Where are the specs for what replaces it supposed to come from? And when they asked for those specs and got little answers, what were they supposed to do? Run around screaming "No we'r…

For me, I have requested the same since the beginning — just allow me to modify the UI with a markup language. Or I'll fork, merge all upstream patches down, and work with that. Currently I have to rely on the AutoHiDPI addon because firefox is otherwise unusable on my system (linux with two screens with very different DPIs). I also asked for a way to get tab thumbnails done, and to replace the entire bookmark and om…

Did you request this with your plugin/addon developers, or with mozilla yourself through their many methods of contact for this if you are a plugin/addon developer?

I don't get why addon/plugin developers not communicating upstream is the problem of upstream.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#279
post #3

I use Firefox because of 2 things: 1) vimperator 2) single process handling multiple tabs (I typically have upwards of 40 tabs open at a time) Firefox is in the process of removing plugins like 1) so that it makes it possible to remove 2). Wonderful.

Firefox is not removing those plugins. Vimperator has an issue in it's github referring to e10s and webextensions from 2015. It was commented upon a few times through 2015, more in 2016, and obviously more now. Nobody ever started moving forward. Only 10 days ago, a different issue was opened with regards to porting to an entirely new codebase for vimperator that uses WebExtension. They just now are talking about get…

Thanks for the detailed response.

As someone who doesn't follow the nitty-gritty of Firefox development, it's frustrating to only really find out about it when things stop working.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sufficient extension points with APIs to reimplement the interesting addons should have been made available and working years before dropping compatibility. From the conversations happening around the most popular addons, that has not been the case. It may be that the old APIs need to die; but this way isn't the way to kill the old API. You need as near to complete overlapping for a long time to get people to port ov…

But this is not a secret. This has been discussed repeatedly for at least 5 years now. The current XUL methodology CANNOT sustain, and everyone knew this. But everyone also knew Mozilla was famous for putting off being confrontational, so nobody actually thought this was going to happen, so nobody really communicated with mozilla on what would be needed to avoid this happening. Now Mozilla has finally set a date (whi…

The problems with XUL have been discussed for over 5 years, but there hasn't been a solution. WebExtensions was announced 18 months ago, was deemed stable for developers 8 months later, and only just got a reasonable migration path with embedded WebExtensions in Firefox 51.

There's been plenty of communication from developers on Bugzilla. People are alarmed because Mozilla's original estimate fell way short, the deprecation roadmap is a lot more specific than the implementation roadmap[1], and migration is going to suck for extensions that need APIs missing from Firefox 52.

[1] https://trello.com/b/PC9kB14s/webextensions-roadmap

Post reply on HN