Live data from Hacker News

I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

blog.codinghorror.com

271–276 of 276 posts

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#271
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because HN is a community where people have discussions with each other. Pseudonyms are fine. The community benefits from consistent accounts that others can relate to as members of the community. Otherwise there are effectively no users and no community, which is a very different place.

You should care about the message itself not who is saying it. There are SJW mobs who downvote every comment that hurts their narrative. You can write factually correct and appropriate comments, they will still downvote it if they disagree. If you don't want to lose your HN points, you either self censor, and let the SJWs win or you make your statement from a throwaway account.

If you're worried about points, I think your focus is wrong. They're just points (as far as you don't lose so many you can no longer comment).

That said, you can use them as a tool to figure out how to craft your comments in a way that's actually read and understood, rather than reflexively responded to. The point should be discussion, not speaking the truth, brutal as it may be, you just have to listen to me.

Please don't read that as me assuming that's what you're doing. I do see a lot of people complain that they're getting down voted when their tone and word choice is very abrasive, or at least not couched in a way that's easy to respond to. Looking at your comment above, labelling people as SJWs is going to create a reaction, just as labels like racist or misogynist are likely to. For example, your comment would be just as effective if you had reworded it "There are mobs" and remove the "and let the SJWs win". Those parts are needlessly inflammatory (even if you think they're true).

Factual and appropriate may be fine for neutral topics; for contentious ones it's not enough. This is all assuming you're not just here for ideological battle, but rather to understand (though perhaps not agree) and be understood.

Believe me, this is something I struggle with myself, and remind myself of nearly every time I write a comment on a contentious topic. Two references I return to from time to time are:

- Rapoport's Rules: https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/03/28/daniel-dennett-rapo...

- The Principle of Charity: http://philosophy.lander.edu/oriental/charity.html

As for crappy voting behavior, I see that happen on all sides. Not a lot you can do about it, other than shrug it off and try to write even better comments. Any time I get dinged I reread my comment and ask myself how I could have written it better. While there truly might be no way I could have prevented it, the only thing I really can control is how I write the comment.

Anyway, I hope you find this useful. It's intended to be. I want HN to be a place where people can talk about difficult topics constructively and positively.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You have people working full-time who cannot afford the living. You have one of the most expensive and unreachable for many healthcare systems. You do have degressive taxing systems. You have much smaller middle class that you are used too. These are all very, very real problems. The problem is, they're not solved by voting Republican, but a lot of people simply think of themselves as Republicans. So there are a lot…

There is a fallacy there - you believe, that if voting Republican does not improve situation, but can likely be detrimental, its better to stick with alternative. The caveat is that this is the reasoning of people functioning reasonably well in current society. If you put yourself in shoes of those who are definitely not happy now, for them the choice is quite different - status quo, which is unacceptable, or change,…

>There is a fallacy there - you believe, that if voting Republican does not improve situation, but can likely be detrimental, its better to stick with alternative.

No, I don't believe in the two-party system. If someone voted Green, Libertarian, or otherwise because they believed a third-party vote (especially down-ballot) would actually help address their problems, more power to them.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You have people working full-time who cannot afford the living. You have one of the most expensive and unreachable for many healthcare systems. You do have degressive taxing systems. You have much smaller middle class that you are used too. These are all very, very real problems. The problem is, they're not solved by voting Republican, but a lot of people simply think of themselves as Republicans. So there are a lot…

Here's the thing, they're not solved by voting Democrat either.

Quite right. I much prefer when people vote third-party on principle.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This claim is untrue.[0] [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/...

> “Immigration authorities soon began rechecking all Iraqi refugees in America, reportedly comparing fingerprints and other records with military and intelligence documents in dusty archives. About 1,000 soon-to-be immigrants in Iraq were told that they would not be allowed to board flights already booked. Some were removed from planes. Thousands more Iraqi applicants had to restart the immigration process, because t…

Not to mention:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXwnlsNFXIY

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#275
post #110
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same applies to British politics Your example is a poor one, and the British electorate have very different motivations when it comes to voting for very different parties with very different backgrounds, in very different elections with a very different governmental structure.

I've seen people arguing that, since Clinton was the "pro-war" candidate (due to her work at the State Department), one should vote for Trump. It's true that the governmental structure is different; the ability of an incoming administration to sweep away the civil service and security services is much less in the UK. However, the recent R (Miller) -v- Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union case has a usefu…

It's hard to say and would depend on the rights in question. Parliamentary sovereignty would mandate consulting parliament, but our parliament is representative, not direct. It would also be necessary to consult devolved kingdoms, but the extent to which required is not clear.

We don't really have the same segregation of powers. Primary legislation can come from various sources and apply in various ways to various parts of the UK. The judiciary is independent and is generally relied on to determine how those laws are to be interpreted.

In order for laws to come into force nationally, they need royal assent from the Queen. If memory serves correct this relies on the Queen literally saying the word "Approved" at a certain point in the reading of a law. It might've changed, but might still be in effect. As such we don't really have the same concept of Executive Orders. We do have written guidance on laws, but this can be overridden through the courts.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#276
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never? So you didn't mind when we were bombing weddings and hospitals? Nice.

This is not the sort of thing we say to fellow community members as part of a civil and thoughtful discussion. Please don't post like this.

what part of that question was uncivil or not thoughtful? challenging their biases? the way it was phrased? using "never?" as a grammitically incorrect sentence? pointing out their hypocrisy?
Post reply on HN